Dying pubs.

[Globalti]

Stopped for a swifty when out riding on Tuesday evening and got chatting with the barman about his selection of five great cask ales. He agreed that freshness is important when you're dealing with a living product and explained that his biggest problem was offering enough variety while keeping the stock moving because about three days after opening the beer begins to taste noticeably less fresh. If you've ever had a pint from an old barrel followed by the same beer from a fresh barrel you'll know this.

This seemed to be the nub of the problem; if it's not a busy town centre pub serving overpriced pasteurised Euro-piss to kids with too much cash, a pub has to be very good to survive on beer alone. If the beer is in good condition with fast turnover the discriminating drinkers will keep coming back but as soon as consumption drops, the beer gets stale and you're into a vicious circle of declining business. So many factors affect turnover but location is key along with the personality of the landlord and the kind of customers he encourages or discourages.

The next step is when the pub begins to take deliveries of frozen food from Brakes, 3663 or Food Service and tries to sell it as "Home made food", employing a kitchen technician with a few microwaves and a grill. However even food reheating can be cocked up; we've all had disastrous pub meals in shonky places run by inexperienced kids and vowed never to return.

So down the pan goes our local and the next thing is that it reopens as a theme pub with sport TVs and serving the aforementioned Euro-piss. This might last for 18 months but the lager crowd is fickle and will soon move on.

Next, a Chinese restaurant. There are even a couple of pubs I know that have managed to survive by offering an odd combination of beer and Chinese food.

That fails and along comes an Indian or Pakistani with some family cash. This might survive if the cooks are good and not just using industrial sauces; competition is intense.

What next? Permanent closure. They say ten pubs a week are closing; recently a barmaid in a busy and successful pub told me they were probably doing well because there are fewer and fewer pubs open.

What does the forum think about all this?

 

[Ludwig]

It is a sad loss to our heritage and many of the pubs I went to as a young man have closed but I think the smoking ban and supermarket competition have finished a lot off. Some are hanging on offering bar meals and so on but the future doesn't look rosey. Naturally for cyclists its not very good because you can cycle from village to village where all the shops, pubs and post offices are shut down.

 

[Globalti]

It doesn't look rosey but local craft brewers are doing exceptionally well at the moment. Have a look at all the wonderful local brewers listed further down this page: Craft brewers

I had two pints of AllGates California bitter last night; absolutely delicious!

 

[MacB]

The survivors will do well but you won't find many articles with features on the thousands of ex landlords. Ludwig has it right, doesn't matter whether you agree with cheap supermarket beer and the smoking ban, or not, that's what did the damage. It's possible to argue that the supermarkets wouldn't have made the inroads without the advent of the smoking ban. But even a ban reversal wouldn't see the trade returning, they're dead and gone I'm afraid.

The bit I find offensive is the triumphant braying in the press by the anti smokers and the surviving pub owners. It's not hard to make a go of a business when such a large proportion of your competition is wiped out. A common question from ex-landlords is, we implemented the ban and readied ourselves for the hoards that smoking had kept away, where were they? That's always met with stock responses around them not moving with the market, not getting their business model right, etc, etc. The mainstream media has shown a total lack of honesty in reporting around the smoking ban and pub closures.

 

[dan_bo]

The world has changed and the days when all a landlord had to do is open the doors at 11 o'clock and watch the money walk through the door. There are pubs out there which shouldn't be but are thriving because the owner/staff give a toss about supplying a good product in the right surroundings. That said, competition from the supermarkets is ridiculous, and the big breweries don't help when they force punters to pay £3.50+ for a pint.

 

[upsidedown]

My sister-in-law turned a struggling country pub into a booming business by offering two for one meals at twice the price of a single meal. She now does kangaroo, crocodile, antelope and all sorts of stuff, all microwaved and dished out by untrained kitchen staff. Speed and turnover is what it's all about.

There is a place for good beer in small pubs, but with the choice on offer in supermrkets now they're always going to struggle.

 

[accountantpete]

The sign of a dying pub is usually a manager behind the bar in place of a landlord.

The brewers don't help - our local landlady is charged way more for her bottled beer than it costs at the local C&C.

Some pubs are fighting back - my Dad saw one pub opposite two fast food outlets with a sign saying "takeaway meal eaters welcome"!

 

[martint235]

The sign of a dying pub is when the brewery won't deliver without cash on delivery. Then you know the pub's days are numbered.

That said, all the pubs I've been in over the last few years that have a landlord rather than a manager, the landlord always seems to have a big, new car parked outside. I've always kind of thought of landlords as I do farmers, there's obviously a lot of hardship and struggle but most of them seem to have more than I do.

 

[pubrunner]

Stopped for a swifty when out riding on Tuesday evening and got chatting with the barman about his selection of five great cask ales. He agreed that freshness is important when you're dealing with a living product and explained that his biggest problem was offering enough variety while keeping the stock moving because about three days after opening the beer begins to taste noticeably less fresh. If you've ever had a pint from an old barrel followed by the same beer from a fresh barrel you'll know this.

Some landlords extend the life of the beer by removing the spile (which is usually a loose fit - depends on beer type) and connecting a gas line to the hole in the centre of the shive, giving a 'blanket' cover of C02.

. . . his biggest problem was offering enough variety while keeping the stock moving because about three days after opening the beer begins to taste noticeably less fresh. If you've ever had a pint from an old barrel followed by the same beer from a fresh barrel you'll know this.

Very few beers will go off after only 3 days; unless they've been on the stillage for too long or were close to sell by date on arrival. Lighter beers usually go 'off' quite a bit bit faster than darker, heavier ales. We once had Bass Old No. 1 - a Winter brew; it lasted weeks. Mind you, it was about 10% abv, so we were only selling 1/4 & 1/2 pints.

. . . while keeping the stock moving . . .

We only bought firkins, to ensure a fast throughput of beer. Also, it enabled us to rapidly change what was on offer. We had six handpumps and a firkin connected to each. Most lasted no more than three days. So in a good week, we could have up to 12 different beers available. This created a great deal of interest; customers could be most disappointed, if they found that they'd just missed out on a particular brew.

 

[pubrunner]

The brewers don't help - our local landlady is charged way more for her bottled beer than it costs at the local C&C.

That's a good point !

Your local landlady is almost certainly a tenant - as are most landlords (if they ain't managers).

Tenants are always going to find it tough; if they do well, they are usually rewarded by an increase in tenancy fees. They have to buy most of the beer from the brewery at premium rates. In our freehouse, we were able to buy the likes of Banks's beer, £5 - £10 a firkin cheaper than their tenancies nearby. I can think of two or three tenants locally, who have been caught by the brewer, for breaking their agreements and selling beer that they've purchased (cheaper) from a micro-brewery - resulting in a hefty fine.

Of course, the breweries aren't too bothered if a tenant fails; there's always another mug, who thinks that they can make a fortune by offering something new, such as karaoke or country & western evenings.

In my opinion, the only way to make money from a pub, is to own the premises outright.

 

[Chromatic]

A sign saying 'under new management' for about the fifth time in eighteen months or so.

 

[dodgy]

Wasn't there some action being taken against breweries so it will become illegal for a brewery to prevent a tenant buying their beer on the open market?

 

[dodgy]

Hmm, no case to answer apparently http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/oft-clears-pub-industry-over-beer-ties-2106408.html

 

[Yellow Fang]

Although I don't go there often, I was interested to see what happened to one of my local pubs. It had been a traditional Irish sort of pub, not a theme pub, but one with strains of The Furies coming out the door. It was slightly too far out the town centre. It was a bit shabby and run down. Then it was bought out and the new management turned it into a real ale pub. I don't like all the ales, but it always seems to have plenty of punters. I think its management is quite inventive. For example, the Reading half marathon passes it so they put out a beer station for passing runners. I had a pint while cheering on my club mates. My favourite pub in Reading is tucked away in a back street. It sometimes feels like you're entering someone's living room, especially when the landlady's teenage daughter comes back and starts arguing with her mother. They mainly serve real ales too. My favourite is Harvey's Sussex bitter. They're the most inventive pub managers I've come across. They took it over to prevent it closing down. They have live music of all sorts, film nights, pig clubs, ukelele classes, all sorts of things. Mind you, I still think they're struggling. One of its problems is that it actually quite a small pub.

 

[Jerry Atrik]

The pub co's are at blame . it's the only trade i know that gets punished for being good at your job . If you do well up goes the rent .