Hilldodger
Guru
- Location
- sunny Leicester
Pubs closing isn't a new thiung and the smoking ban can't be blamed. Pubs have been closing down at a steady rate for decades because life has changed.
Dying pubs.
- Thread starter Globalti
- Start date
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david1701
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Bude, Cornwall
interesting to follow as we're half and half to buying a pub, keep it going guys 
Vague plan was niceish (but not great) wine cheap. Big pizzas (I know they do awesomely in a few pubs I go to in Exeter) and building up a locals pub in a fairly touristy town. Thoughts on that?
Vague plan was niceish (but not great) wine cheap. Big pizzas (I know they do awesomely in a few pubs I go to in Exeter) and building up a locals pub in a fairly touristy town. Thoughts on that?
jugglingphil
Senior Member
- Location
- Nottingham
Competition from home drinking has changed pub culture in Britain.
20+ years ago when I reached the age to start drinking, cans were about £1, and a pint in pub £1.50. Now cans are still about £1, and pubs are £3.50 (cut me some slack on prices you get the jist).
My brother has a pub, and they've had 3 tax rises on beer already this year
20+ years ago when I reached the age to start drinking, cans were about £1, and a pint in pub £1.50. Now cans are still about £1, and pubs are £3.50 (cut me some slack on prices you get the jist).
My brother has a pub, and they've had 3 tax rises on beer already this year
We killed the pubs. Here we are posting on an internet forum when a couple of decades ago we would have been chatting down the local, well I would have. Society has changed, how often do you stop off for a pint on the way home from work? It's just not something that seems to happen anymore. The local boozer where the blokes went to get away from the misses is a thing of the past, we used to meet in a pub on a night out to decide where to go, now we text... I'm sure supermarket prices haven't helped, but 9 out of the 10 times I've been in a pub in my life it hasn't been about the alcohol.
How do you tell a dying pub? Same as any other business, it isn't attracting enough customers.
How do you tell a dying pub? Same as any other business, it isn't attracting enough customers.
My local pub was a typical unwelcoming locals only, smelly, scruffy, spit & sawdust place. It was never busy and was only a matter of time until it closed. When the smoking ban came in. They did the place up. Made it more family friendly & welcoming. Brightened up the place with new decor & furniture. Did away with the bad element. Bought in a good cook to do some great value decent pub grub. Result it is that the pub is now busier then it has ever been.
Trembler49
Veteran
- Location
- Portimao, Portugal
Everyone seems to be ignoring the obvious problem (the elephant in the room)
It isn't the smoking ban that is the problem, but drink driving. You can'y go to a pub and enjoy "a couple of pints of" anything.
Banning drink driving is a good thing, but the fallout (intended or otherwise) is the death of the country pub.
In my opinion ( am I meant to say IMHO?)
It isn't the smoking ban that is the problem, but drink driving. You can'y go to a pub and enjoy "a couple of pints of" anything.
Banning drink driving is a good thing, but the fallout (intended or otherwise) is the death of the country pub.
In my opinion ( am I meant to say IMHO?)
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
We have a surprising increase of decent pubs springing up in the last few years around here and they all have a few things in common.
Castle Rock Brewery have had a massive expansion in the last 5 years. Blue Monkey are just about to open the first pub locally too.
Good real ale, an atmosphere conducive to people having a conversation and also being kid friendly. A bit of food being available also helps, nothing special, certainly not gastro pub stylee, but enough to keep you there if you need something to soak the ale up.
I think this is also why Wetherspoons has gone from strength to strength in the last few years. Real Ale and playing to the working families with kids who need some time out of the house.
The play loud music for the kids and also the sell you a pint of fizzy p*ss while fleecing you 15 quid for a burger and garnish type gastro pubs are falling like flies though...
Castle Rock Brewery have had a massive expansion in the last 5 years. Blue Monkey are just about to open the first pub locally too.
Good real ale, an atmosphere conducive to people having a conversation and also being kid friendly. A bit of food being available also helps, nothing special, certainly not gastro pub stylee, but enough to keep you there if you need something to soak the ale up.
I think this is also why Wetherspoons has gone from strength to strength in the last few years. Real Ale and playing to the working families with kids who need some time out of the house.
The play loud music for the kids and also the sell you a pint of fizzy p*ss while fleecing you 15 quid for a burger and garnish type gastro pubs are falling like flies though...
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
You are indeed supposed to save your fingers and type imho.
You can go to a pub and enjoy a few pints - if it is local. Local people like local pubs if they cater to the local community...that means parents, with money and quite often offspring. Who in turn hate troublemakers and dodgy types.
Glow worm
Legendary Member
- Location
- Near Newmarket
I don't know about your local- maybe it really was a hole but I wonder if the locals may have been there all their lives as had generations before them? I'd hate it if they did our local up just to please the posh bar stewards. The old boys in our local sit in the corner playing dominos/cards as they have always done and I hope always will.
tbh one of the biggest things I've noticed is the drop off of either midday or a swift one after work. i'd blame this totally on the price rise of beer and the sort of 'race to posh brand' that seemed to happen when pubs were opening left right and center and seemingly could be full regardless of what they charged.
i used to have a couple during dinner most days, and it really wasnt that long ago when it was easy to have a 1.50 pint(1.20 I think in 2000 , though that was the joseph holts brewery tap )... now its just wetherspoons thats cheap .. but how can wetherspoons charge so little for a lot of real ale, where other pubs have to charge so much more ?
on the plus side, the way the pubco's have got so much debt and seem to have to force high prices for 'main ales' seems to have opened up better competition, more and more pubs do seem to have better choices of bitters than they used to have and seemingly saving money in a lot of cases too...
i'm not sure about the smoking ban, a lot of the busy pubs i go in have essentially expanded due to it, because the previously mainly empty outside areas are now packed, as well as in the pub itself..
you probably could easily argue that people drink cans at home instead now, but that isnt due to the smoking ban is it? Its more that one can of carlsberg is something like 50p at home or 3quid in a pub... not rocket science...
i used to have a couple during dinner most days, and it really wasnt that long ago when it was easy to have a 1.50 pint(1.20 I think in 2000 , though that was the joseph holts brewery tap
)... now its just wetherspoons thats cheap .. but how can wetherspoons charge so little for a lot of real ale, where other pubs have to charge so much more ?on the plus side, the way the pubco's have got so much debt and seem to have to force high prices for 'main ales' seems to have opened up better competition, more and more pubs do seem to have better choices of bitters than they used to have and seemingly saving money in a lot of cases too...
i'm not sure about the smoking ban, a lot of the busy pubs i go in have essentially expanded due to it, because the previously mainly empty outside areas are now packed, as well as in the pub itself..
you probably could easily argue that people drink cans at home instead now, but that isnt due to the smoking ban is it? Its more that one can of carlsberg is something like 50p at home or 3quid in a pub... not rocket science...
[QUOTE 1423196"]
If you want a successful pub...
-open in a student area
-open the only one in walking distance of the local wino community
-open one in popular countryside
-attract with food (cheap family or gastro)
...otherwise you're stuffed. People don't socialise in pubs any more.
[/quote]
bang bang bang bang 'whats that you say? cant here you? what eh?'
lots of pubs arent even welcoming due to this wierd idea everyone wants to listen to an 80's disco or kareoke... grrr
If you want a successful pub...
-open in a student area
-open the only one in walking distance of the local wino community
-open one in popular countryside
-attract with food (cheap family or gastro)
...otherwise you're stuffed. People don't socialise in pubs any more.
[/quote]
bang bang bang bang 'whats that you say? cant here you? what eh?'
lots of pubs arent even welcoming due to this wierd idea everyone wants to listen to an 80's disco or kareoke... grrr
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
tbh one of the biggest things I've noticed is the drop off of either midday or a swift one after work. i'd blame this totally on the price rise of beer and the sort of 'race to posh brand' that seemed to happen when pubs were opening left right and center and seemingly could be full regardless of what they charged.
i used to have a couple during dinner most days, and it really wasnt that long ago when it was easy to have a 1.50 pint(1.20 I think in 2000 , though that was the joseph holts brewery tap
on the plus side, the way the pubco's have got so much debt and seem to have to force high prices for 'main ales' seems to have opened up better competition, more and more pubs do seem to have better choices of bitters than they used to have and seemingly saving money in a lot of cases too...
Wetherspoons own the buildings and manage the pubs themselves. They negotiate good prices and don't charge the landlord rent, they also have an interest in keeping the pub profitable. Totally unlike the big chains such as Green King, who rent the pubs to the landlords, charge impossible rents (67K a year for my old village pubs rent!!) and then force the landlord to buy beer from them at inflated prices. They have no interest in keeping them running, only ripping off the tenants, who in turn have to charge inflated prices etc. downward spiral.
Castle Rock, Alcazar etc. own the pubs, charge the tenant decent prices for the product and ensure that the landlord has a mutually beneficial relationship with them due to an interest in providing the community with the products they want in exchange for a consistent and realistic profit margin.
Bass, Green King etc really don't give a stuff about you and me or their landlords. Only the shareholders. They can always sell the buildings when they have milked them out of business.
I also completely disagree with Mr Paul (for a change). People do socialise in pubs in increasing numbers...but only welcoming ones.
pubrunner
Legendary Member
[QUOTE 1423200"]
But take last Saturday as an example. Hot sunny afternoon in London. Meet an old mate at a Youngs Pub by the river in Wandsworth. Neither of us is poor (or rich). But we wonder why we're paying nearly four/five quid for something which is 95% water, so end up going to the Tesco express, after a few rounds, and buying a couple of bottles of decent red for about £12, some decent lager for about a fiver and back to the flat, (with comfortable seating and service on tap.)
[/quote]
30 + years ago, I remember going to a riverside (Fullers ?) pub called The Dove at Hammersmith - that's not far from Wandsworth, if I think ?
My main recollection, was that it was full - wall-to-wall, with totty & the beer was very good, too 
. Same with the nearby Anglesea (?) Arms.
In either pub, I was more than happy to cough up about 70p a pint - and admire the London scenery.
But take last Saturday as an example. Hot sunny afternoon in London. Meet an old mate at a Youngs Pub by the river in Wandsworth. Neither of us is poor (or rich). But we wonder why we're paying nearly four/five quid for something which is 95% water, so end up going to the Tesco express, after a few rounds, and buying a couple of bottles of decent red for about £12, some decent lager for about a fiver and back to the flat, (with comfortable seating and service on tap.)
[/quote]
30 + years ago, I remember going to a riverside (Fullers ?) pub called The Dove at Hammersmith - that's not far from Wandsworth, if I think ?
My main recollection, was that it was full - wall-to-wall, with totty
& the beer was very good, too . Same with the nearby Anglesea (?) Arms.In either pub, I was more than happy to cough up about 70p a pint - and admire the London scenery.
2Loose
Guru
- Location
- Loughborough, Leicestershire.
Now that kind of point is very convincing. £3 a pint in my local give or take 40p depending on what you drink. £4.40 in one of the pubs when I went back to Cambridge town last (the beer was shocking too!). I would have rather drank 4 warm tins of Stella in a carpark loo than go there again.
No wonder people drink at home when many pubs offer nothing except a place to drink.
My local has loyalty cards - each pint gets me a sticker to go on my little card and a full card of 8 stickers gets me a free pint...or in my case save them all up for xmas and buy a keg - effectively for free.
It also does a mean fry up\bacon cob & tea\coffee after 8am and I am also reliably told by my other half (oops, mean ex.) that their carrot cake is to die for. She didn't unfortunately, but I got the point
.
A pub whose trade runs from dawn to dusk with different waves of customers, rather than the traditional lunchtime or evening only crowds.
Pubs being profitable and yet a valuable part of the community can and do exist. Really they do.
Disclaimer: I have only started drinking in pubs again over the last couple of years after finding that friendly pubs really do exist if you look hard enough, after thinking that I no longer fitted the pub demographic (I like to hear myself and sit down while I chat!) . Most of the good ones are camra endorsed in some way, so it makes sense to look there. Even my lager drinking friends prefer these pubs for the atmosphere, prices and decent conversation with strangers - just like it used to be.
My local has loyalty cards - each pint gets me a sticker to go on my little card and a full card of 8 stickers gets me a free pint...or in my case save them all up for xmas and buy a keg - effectively for free.
It also does a mean fry up\bacon cob & tea\coffee after 8am and I am also reliably told by my other half (oops, mean ex.) that their carrot cake is to die for. She didn't unfortunately, but I got the point
A pub whose trade runs from dawn to dusk with different waves of customers, rather than the traditional lunchtime or evening only crowds.
Pubs being profitable and yet a valuable part of the community can and do exist. Really they do.
Disclaimer: I have only started drinking in pubs again over the last couple of years after finding that friendly pubs really do exist if you look hard enough, after thinking that I no longer fitted the pub demographic (I like to hear myself and sit down while I chat!) . Most of the good ones are camra endorsed in some way, so it makes sense to look there. Even my lager drinking friends prefer these pubs for the atmosphere, prices and decent conversation with strangers - just like it used to be.
