Dying pubs.

[swee'pea99]

"Pubs being profitable and yet a valuable part of the community can and do exist. Really they do." True. And so it will continue. There will always be pubs in this country. Just fewer of them, because we no longer have the mass working class culture that produced them in such numbers in the first place. They're in decline, and have been for a long time. At some point the decline will stop, and many good pubs will still be in healthy business.

As for the OP's question, simple: look around and estimate the average age of the punters. 50+, and it's on the way out. 25- and it's probably viable.

 

[slowmotion]

[QUOTE 1423204"]
It was The Ship. Really nice pub (as are all Youngs' Pubs).






[/quote]

I'm pretty sure it was The Dove on the north side of the river, next to Chiswick Mall. The attractive women come to admire the hunky rowers from the clubs nearby. There is a Ship pub next to the brewery by Chiswick Bridge. I ride by them several times each weekend but rarely enter.

BTW, did you know that a pint of Adnam's cost 13p at the college bar in 1973?

What really amazes me is that "Bars" are packed at the expense of pubs. Is it cool to have to wait 25 minutes to buy a round while being deafened by a braying mob? I'm losing touch.

 

[slowmotion]

[QUOTE 1423206"]
It was like that at The Ship.


Hence we went!

(Very hooray henry/henriettia crowd)





[/quote]

Money and expensive perfume were a big magnet for me too. The wine bars with the Old Etonians that rode Norton Commandos were great places to be, but not on a limited budget, alas.
Nice bikes though....

http://www.dennisyang.com/images/norton_950.jpg

 

[Globalti]

I absolutely disagree. Round here the pubs that are surviving on beer alone are the ones with a clientele of mature, discriminating drinkers who appreciate decent beer and are not so desperate to get slaughtered that they will drive to a supermarket for a bottle of voddy and a few tins of Euro-piss. I have four or five of these places within cycling distance; they sell a range of quality hand-pulled beers at around £2.60 a pint, there's no music or fruit machine, a grown up landlord or lady and a whole range of evening activities, clubs, local leagues, quiz night and so on. My pals and I go there because we appreciate the opportunity to try out different beers correctly kept and served and have good natter as well as meeting the occasional character. I had my first two pints of the very excellent AllGates California Bitter from a local brewer, £2.65 a pint, in such a pub last Wednesday.


One of the most successful brewers in England is Joseph Holts of Manchester - they own every one of their 145 pubs outright, (a point made by somebody above) most are relatively un-modernised Victorian buildings, they serve their own excellent beers fresh from the brewery, which is never more than a couple of hours drive for the dray. Roger Protz interviewed the chairman and was astounded to find that they deliver in hogsheads. When he questioned the freshness of the beer the chairman gave him a look of pity and replied that their Manchester city centre pubs are consuming a couple of hogsheads a day.


These are completely different from the town-centre pubs, which have huge TV screens, loud music and are patronised mostly Thursday, Friday and Saturday by roaming gangs of under dressed kids aged 25 who are already voddied up from the supermarket when they set out. These pubs live and die by the whims of fashion and trend.

 

[Fnaar]

[QUOTE 1423196"]

...otherwise you're stuffed. People don't socialise in pubs any more.
[/quote]
Except in East Enters or Corrie, where everyone seems to spend every waking hour in there!

 

[dodgy]

[QUOTE 1423196"]
People don't socialise in pubs any more.
[/quote]


Yes they do.

 

[User169]

Same with the nearby Anglesea (?) Arms.

Used to live quite close by to that one. Exceptional food, but maddeningly run (a 3 hour wait for food wasnt unusual). I gave up on it in the end. Can't remember what the beer was like.

 

[Over The Hill]

Competition from home drinking has changed pub culture in Britain.
20+ years ago when I reached the age to start drinking, cans were about £1, and a pint in pub £1.50. Now cans are still about £1, and pubs are £3.50 (cut me some slack on prices you get the jist).
My brother has a pub, and they've had 3 tax rises on beer already this year

This is exactly what is killing pubs. How can you sell something for £3.50 when it is £1.00 up the road in the local shop?

OK it is not real ale but most pubgoers seem to just drink Fosters anyway.

I have no idea what the tax is on beer in a pub compared to beer from a supermarket. Is it taxed more from a pub? Or is it greed of the brewery?

 

[Dan B]

How can you sell something for £3.50 when it is £1.00 up the road in the local shop?

Starbucks seem to have no trouble selling something for £2.50 which would probably cost less than 20p to drink at home. Perhaps there's a lesson for the pubs there?

 

[ColinJ]

I went out to meet a couple of former colleagues at the White Swan in Hebden Bridge last night. I don't go to the pub much these days, partly because of the cost, and partly because I want to cut down on my alcohol intake.

Anyway, as soon as I opened the door, I could see that something was going on - the pub was bursting at the seams. It took me 25 minutes to get served so I bought 2 pints of Guiness to save me having to queue again. It struck me that is has been a very long time indeed since I've been in a busy pub.

Most of the people in the pub looked extremely fit. They were slim, with slightly gaunt faces. It turned out to be a large group of fell runners. There must have been a race in the area yesterday evening. I'd been out walking in the afternoon and had spotted direction signs for runners in the local woods.

The landlady looked pretty pleased! She must have made a lot of money in a couple of hours. Incidentally, I spotted a notice up saying that she has just celebrated 30 years at the pub. That's a lot of pints pulled ...

If you ever come to Hebden Bridge and want to visit the kind of pub that Globalti is talking about, you want to visit the Fox and Goose at the bottom of the Heptonstall Road, just up from the traffic lights.

 

[Alan Whicker]

The future for the pub is selling quality real ale. It's the only part of the market that is growing. My home town, Keighley, is famous for the quality of the beer sold in its pubs, mostly from the excellent local brewer Taylor's. Most of the towns pubs are doing well. Some places have shut in the town centre, but perhaps tellingly most of the ones that have gone have been the alcopops-karaoke type. Even out in the sticks, most villages hold onto their pubs for similar reasons - the quality of their beer and their food (there are always exceptions). One pub in the village where my friends live was a great example of a community boozer - real fire, great beer, top quality food. The tenants loved the pub and it showed. When they retired, the 'new people' stuck a huge and intrusive TV screen in the main bar, the food was frozen stuff sold for the same price as fresh, and beer quality declined - and punters stayed away in droves. The new tenants didn't stay long, and now the place is back on form and owned by a local microbrewery.

Where I live in London - Leytonstone - the best pub in the area for 'proper' beer, The North Star, is thriving. The landlord of another pub in the area was moaning that his trade had dropped off a cliff. I've been to that pub, and it was like a mortuary - no real ales, and what lager was available was twice the price of a supermarket. Where was the added value? The atmosphere? The welcome? There's more to a pub than just beer. I can drink far more cheaply at home, but I will happily pay a premium for a good beer in a good pub - and I think most people will.

 

[Globalti]

The future for the pub is selling quality real ale. It's the only part of the market that is growing. My home town, Keighley, is famous for the quality of the beer sold in its pubs, mostly from the excellent local brewer Taylor's. Most of the towns pubs are doing well. Some places have shut in the town centre, but perhaps tellingly most of the ones that have gone have been the alcopops-karaoke type. Even out in the sticks, most villages hold onto their pubs for similar reasons - the quality of their beer and their food (there are always exceptions). One pub in the village where my friends live was a great example of a community boozer - real fire, great beer, top quality food. The tenants loved the pub and it showed. When they retired, the 'new people' stuck a huge and intrusive TV screen in the main bar, the food was frozen stuff sold for the same price as fresh, and beer quality declined - and punters stayed away in droves. The new tenants didn't stay long, and now the place is back on form and owned by a local microbrewery.

Where I live in London - Leytonstone - the best pub in the area for 'proper' beer, The North Star, is thriving. The landlord of another pub in the area was moaning that his trade had dropped off a cliff. I've been to that pub, and it was like a mortuary - no real ales, and what lager was available was twice the price of a supermarket. Where was the added value? The atmosphere? The welcome? There's more to a pub than just beer. I can drink far more cheaply at home, but I will happily pay a premium for a good beer in a good pub - and I think most people will.

Thank you Sir! Everything you write is so true. I remember as a yoof going into a local pub a few times and being so impressed that by my third visit the landlord had learned my name and greeted me as I entered, while pouring a pint of my usual (M&B Sprigfield Bitter!) for me. For a youngish lad far away from his family that made me feel very welcome.

I used to live in Leytonstone, Langthorne Road, opposite St Patrick's cem where my grandparents are buried! Used to drink in a big Victorian pub next to the gates, forget the name. Grim place.

For good pubs to thrive they must not be dependent on car drivers; the successful real ale pubs I know are all in small communities where customers can walk. For keg pubs to survive they have to have become restaurants with large car parks.

 

[Ludwig]

I think the increase in pub closures mirrors the lack of disposable income about, the declining birthrate, and people wishing to live healthier fitter lifestyles and the drastic reduction of those working class jobs in the factories, pits, shipyards and steel works etc.. For the social aspect people are joing cycling , running, triathlon and rambling groups rather than sit about in pubs and clubs.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I think the increase in pub closures mirrors the lack of disposable income about, the declining birthrate, and people wishing to live healthier fitter lifestyles and the drastic reduction of those working class jobs in the factories, pits, shipyards and steel works etc.. For the social aspect people are joing cycling , running, triathlon and rambling groups rather than sit about in pubs and clubs.

I suspect that this is true. Remember that pubs flourished when heavy manual work was the norm. Before WW1 and the reform of the licensing laws, beer would be consumed before, during (lunchtime) and after work. It functioned, I suspect, as a mild anaesthetic and eased the pain of being not much more than an industrial slave.

 

[Over The Hill]

Its chalk and cheese (unless you drink scottish and newcastle piss that is)

I agree that the europiss stacked up high in most supermarkets is not a pint of ale.

But in most pubs, punters drink europiss and in most supermarkets you can get a decent beer still at half the price it is in the pub.

If the pub is seen as high-end luxury (which is how I see it now as I am hard up) then basically its days are numbered as people like me are rarely going into pubs.


Throw in the smoking ban, young people drinking at home more now, drink driving, people drinking wine (always useless in a pub) and quite frankly I am surprised that so many of them are still open. Most tend to function primarily as an eating establishment rather than a drinking one.