Gels etc

[iandg]

I carry a couple in case I bonk but generally fuel my rides (audax upto 600km) on proper food at cafes plus sandwiches, dried apricots, and nakd bars between stops if needed.

 

[Montydog]

if you think they work for you then use them.....simples

 

[bozmandb9]

There's a few hundred grams of glycogen stored in muscle tissue in an average healthy person. This gets burned up quicker as we exercise harder.

I often do "fasted" commutes. I get on the train for two hours without eating anything. I almost always do "fasted" working: going two, three maybe even four hours "fasted" before eating again.

Sometimes I do "fasted" walks to the shops - but only if I'm feeling lucky.

Even with a lot of people trying to use evidence and science, there's a lot of nonsense around.

When you are exercising hard, an average adult will burn through those stores calories pretty quickly. I burn ~900 calories per hour cycling, ~1,300 calories running. My performance, and any other human beings* performance, will tail off as the muscles run out of glycogen, and my body starts to find other sources of glycogen. With no glycogen immediately available my muscles start to slow, my performance reduces, and consequently the fitness benefits tail off. Muscular endurance is built by a series of stresses put on and recoveries of the muscles. I can no longer stress them as I am out of glycogen. The exercise benefits are evaporating.

As my body starts to convert fat to glycogen, at a much lower level of efficiency, I start to get a supply of glycogen to my muscles again - instead of shutting down completely, they can keep going at a much reduced stress and effectiveness.

None of this is affected by how thin or fat I am.


*Recent studies show some evidence that "fat adaptation" over a long period can increase metabolic efficiency of utilising fat as a glycogen source, this means that you can train your body to get more glycogen from a gram of fat, and that you don't need to have the cutover from glucose sources to fat sources untrained people would have. You cannot become metabolically efficient with fat by the occasional "fasted" ride.

There is no evidence that fat adaptation improves performance. There is tons of evidence that taking in carbs while exercising does improve performance.

There are potential benefits from less dependence on carbohydrates for athletes - dental health and diabetes being current concerns. this is not to say that a diet weighted towards fat is without health concerns.

I'd love some more expert advice Tin Pot. I've only managed to get down to 10-15% bodyfat from over 30% using my primitive knowledge, and I've found my progress in Masters Athletics has plateau'd at around top 50 UK in my events. I'm keen to get below 10% bodyfat, and top ten, in addition to transitioning from sprint to middle distance.

Please enlighten me further on why my fasted rides aren't working ;-)

 

[Tin Pot]

I'd love some more expert advice Tin Pot. I've only managed to get down to 10-15% bodyfat from over 30% using my primitive knowledge, and I've found my progress in Masters Athletics has plateau'd at around top 50 UK in my events. I'm keen to get below 10% bodyfat, and top ten, in addition to transitioning from sprint to middle distance.

Please enlighten me further on why my fasted rides aren't working ;-)

Ha - you havent understood a word! All you've read is "TP is trying to undermine my worldview".

 

[bozmandb9]

Ha - you havent understood a word! All you've read is "TP is trying to undermine my worldview".

That's why I say 'enlighten me oh font of all knowledge'!

(Oh, and the world is slightly larger than cycling/ training nutrition!)

 

[Tin Pot]

That's why I say 'enlighten me oh font of all knowledge'!

(Oh, and the world is slightly larger than cycling/ training nutrition!)

Well done on the fitness by the way.

Perhaps we can agree that pancakes make a great post ride meal?

I'm arguing for fueling muscles during exercise for the optimum training benefit and race performance.

I'm not making points about weight or fat loss.

Have you been training for fat adaptation, or just the occasional fasted ride?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Perhaps we can agree that pancakes make a great post ride meal?

Not to mention a post-ride facepack.

 

[tyred]

Steak and kidney pie taste nicer

 

[e-rider]

if you cycle 200 miles as fast as you can, you'll eat anything you can get your hands on!

 

[derrick]

Normal club rides up to 50 miles you really don't need them, All my big rides i eat proper food. But if it makes you feel good use them.

 

[ayceejay]

I'm arguing for fueling muscles during exercise for the optimum training benefit and race performance.
If a person eats a balanced diet that (average) person would have enough stored energy to ride a bike or run hard for about 90 minutes without any further changes in diet, the only needs during the ride would be fluids to avoid dehydration. As you train, your body's ability to deal with the metabolic changes will increase and is a benefit of cardio vascular fitness (i.e. aerobic exercise). Eating during a training ride of less than 90 minutes would be counter productive. Riding while fasting should not be encouraged IMO due to the dangers involved.

 

[derrick]

if you cycle 200 miles as fast as you can, you'll eat anything you can get your hands on!

On this ride the club had food on the wagon mostly pasta. and a supposed to be healthy pizza, which i really have trouble eating, when we got to Cromer our last fuel stop my wife got me a nice bit of gala pie, that gave me and a few of the other riders the boost we needed to finish the ride, Just keep drinking.
https://www.strava.com/activities/301362611

 

[Tin Pot]

I'm arguing for fueling muscles during exercise for the optimum training benefit and race performance.
If a person eats a balanced diet that (average) person would have enough stored energy to ride a bike or run hard* for about 90 minutes without any further changes in diet, the only needs during the ride would be fluids to avoid dehydration. As you train, your body's ability to deal with the metabolic changes will increase and is a benefit of cardio vascular fitness (i.e. aerobic exercise). Eating during a training ride of less than 90 minutes would be counter productive. Riding while fasting should not be encouraged IMO due to the dangers involved.

Indeed.

And to add to that there is a difference between needing fuel, and benefiting from fuel.

Athletes have experimented with marathons sans fuel, sans water - they can complete the distance. They don't need anything extra. Are they putting in their best times? No.

*Moderately, not hard, according to most sources. Whatever that means

 

[ayceejay]

I don't understand that Tin Pot - what is the difference between needing and benefiting in this context?

 

[Tin Pot]

I don't understand that Tin Pot - what is the difference between needing and benefiting in this context?

Well, let's say bozmandb9 is doing a fasted ride for 90mins to work or with his mates on a Sunday ride. He's fine without taking any other fuel. He doesn't need it.

Let's say that ride is a 3hr time trial. He can still turn up and finish, he's not going to die without fuel - he doesn't need it. But to put in his best performance, taking a gel on the hour gets those extra watts out of his muscles - he benefits from it.

Let's say the ride is part of an Ironman event, he'd be mad not to eat something. He needs it.


I read a lot of rhetoric of people saying "you don't need" something. Which can be true, but it doesn't mean you won't benefit from it.