Historical VED info needed

[Chuffy]

What a fascinating thread, thanks Chuffy. I found the stuff on what tax was from 1921 to just after the war particularly interesting.

Thank Maggot, not me. I was the bloke who couldn't find the info....

 

[Speicher]

A few months ago, someone I met at a party, was talking about motoring costs. They compared how many hours they had to work perhaps twenty or more years ago, to pay for the petrol they used in a week. Then they did the same calculation for today.

Bearing in mind much more fuel efficient cars, I think it worked out much cheaper in todays costs. When you are doing all your calculations, Chuffy, you might like to see if that is correct.

 

[User482]

Same answer as Jasper, and same car, as it happens.

It's actually an extremely efficient car. The supercharger means that it is able to extract a lot of usable power from a relatively modest engine, and it does a decent mileage even when you use that performance.

I don't do a massive annual mileage, but when I am driving on business the days are long and I will often cover a lot of miles in a day. I need a car that allows me to drive 150 miles, do my work then drive 150 miles home again and still be safe and alert while I do it. A small, underpowered car will never meet that spec.
There is a limit to how much the government can increase road tax and remain electable. Within those limits, nothing they do will make me choose a less suitable car.

Ben

The latest ranges of smaller cars are actually extremely comfortable, I think you'd be surprised.

Anyway, thanks for answering the Q. It does seem to tally with research that suggests only sharp and sudden rises have any effect on behaviour - e.g. the fuel price rises of this year leading to a drop in average speeds.

 

[jasper]

The latest ranges of smaller cars are actually extremely comfortable, I think you'd be surprised.

But are they economical to run at motorway speeds? I drive, on average, 1000+ miles/week mostly on motorways. Small cars struggled in this area in the past, not sure what modern ones are like.

 

[Chuffy]

But are they economical to run at motorway speeds? I drive, on average, 1000+ miles/week mostly on motorways. Small cars struggled in this area in the past, not sure what modern ones are like.

We get over 65mpg out of our diesel Punto on long motorway runs. Depends on your attitude to speed and acceleration really.

 

[jasper]

We get over 65mpg out of our diesel Punto on long motorway runs. Depends on your attitude to speed and acceleration really.

Motorway speeds = 70mph, usually drive on cruise control, so no undue acceleration. Mind you, a lot of my motorway driving is done on the M25 so the traffic is usually stop/start.

Thanks, good mpg there, still wouldn't swap though.

 

[User482]

But are they economical to run at motorway speeds? I drive, on average, 1000+ miles/week mostly on motorways. Small cars struggled in this area in the past, not sure what modern ones are like.

My (now rather elderly) petrol fiesta does 45-48mpg on a motorway run. The official combined economy is 37mpg so that's a pretty good result. A more modern small car would easily beat this figure.

But I take your point about older small cars - my 1.6 fiesta achieves better motorway mpg than the 1.2 fiesta I had before that, which in turn was better than the Citroen AX I had before that.

 

[Hilldodger]

My Capri does 27 mpg but as I only do 1500/1800 miles a year it doesn't really matter to me. And, being a clasic car the tax increase doesn't affect me either

 

[simoncc]

VED should be scrapped and all duty put on petrol. Then, if you never use your car you pay no tax.

Of course, this will never happen. The government is less interested in the environment than it is in getting a guaranteed income.

 

[CopperBrompton]

The latest ranges of smaller cars are actually extremely comfortable, I think you'd be surprised.

I think you might be surprised just how many cars I've driven. :-) I frequently hire cars when travelling on business, and get to drive a lot of very new cars (most rental companies sell them at 14k miles, which is around six months old[1]). So I've driven new Fords, VWs, Fiats, Audis, BMWs ... all sorts of things.

I agree that today's small hatchbacks are quieter and more comfortable than they have been in the past, but if you think there is any comparison at all with a Merc or a Jag, then you clearly haven't driven one for a few hundred miles.

Anyway, thanks for answering the Q. It does seem to tally with research that suggests only sharp and sudden rises have any effect on behaviour

You seem to have completely misread my answer: I was advising that such rises would not change my choice of car. The level of change required to do that would be such that you'd be pricing many families off the road altogether. I don't think any government is quite that stupid.

Ben

[1] A little-known fact is that car rental companies effectively pay nothing for the cars themselves. They buy in volume at huge discounts (40% discount is not unusual) and then sell them at around 14k miles as low-mileage one-owner cars. With that sort of age and mileage, they sell them for the same amount they paid - sometimes for more than they paid.

 

[User482]

I think you might be surprised just how many cars I've driven. :-) I frequently hire cars when travelling on business, and get to drive a lot of very new cars (most rental companies sell them at 14k miles, which is around six months old[1]). So I've driven new Fords, VWs, Fiats, Audis, BMWs ... all sorts of things.

I agree that today's small hatchbacks are quieter and more comfortable than they have been in the past, but if you think there is any comparison at all with a Merc or a Jag, then you clearly haven't driven one for a few hundred miles.


You seem to have completely misread my answer: I was advising that such rises would not change my choice of car. The level of change required to do that would be such that you'd be pricing many families off the road altogether. I don't think any government is quite that stupid.

Ben

[1] A little-known fact is that car rental companies effectively pay nothing for the cars themselves. They buy in volume at huge discounts (40% discount is not unusual) and then sell them at around 14k miles as low-mileage one-owner cars. With that sort of age and mileage, they sell them for the same amount they paid - sometimes for more than they paid.

Actually I have driven (and been driven in) Audis, Mercs, BMWs and Jags over considerable distances thanks, so I do know what I'm talking about . Whilst I would agree that they offer more refinement than a good quality small car, I don't think that the gap is anything like as big as it used to be.

I haven't misread your answer. We were looking at government instruments, whereas the changes in driver behaviour more recently have been due to market forces which brought about a far more sudden and significant rise than any instrument that a government would be likely to implement.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Actually I have driven (and been driven in) Audis, Mercs, BMWs and Jags over considerable distances

Which Mercs have you actually driven (not been driven in) over what distances, as a matter of interest? If you haven't noticed any difference in how tired you are after say 300-400 miles in a Fiesta and a Merc, I'm frankly astonished.

I haven't misread your answer. We were looking at government instruments, whereas the changes in driver behaviour more recently have been due to market forces

I already prefer to travel by rail on journeys that can conveniently be done as point-to-point ones, as I can make use of the time en-route for work or relaxation. (I'm replying to this while sat on a train on the way to a business meeting, for example.) I drive when the journey is too fiddly by rail or I'm visiting 2-3 locations in a day and rail is simply impractical. The price of petrol doesn't come into it.

Ben

 

[jasper]

My experience of small cars is that you are still vibrating at the end of a long journey. Like I said, old not modern. MPG isn't really a deciding factor when I make a choice to buy a car, so I doubt you'd see me in one anytime soon.

 

[User482]

Which Mercs have you actually driven (not been driven in) over what distances, as a matter of interest? If you haven't noticed any difference in how tired you are after say 300-400 miles in a Fiesta and a Merc, I'm frankly astonished.


I already prefer to travel by rail on journeys that can conveniently be done as point-to-point ones, as I can make use of the time en-route for work or relaxation. (I'm replying to this while sat on a train on the way to a business meeting, for example.) I drive when the journey is too fiddly by rail or I'm visiting 2-3 locations in a day and rail is simply impractical. The price of petrol doesn't come into it.

Ben

I drove a Merc E-class from Denmark to Calais. Is that far enough for you?

In my old job, I frequently needed to borrow company cars to drive to our customers, so did lots of motorway miles in Audi A4 & A6s, VW Passats, BMW 3 & 5 series, Saab 9-5s, etc.

I've yet to drive a Jag XJ, I'm still trying to persuade my Dad to let me have a go!

Like I say, I agree there's a difference, just not nearly as significant as you seem to be suggesting.

Whilst the price of petrol may not come into your decision making, it certainly seems to have done for a lot of other people.

 

[CopperBrompton]

That's a reasonable test-drive, yes. :-)

The Jag XJS is perhaps the ultimate in cossetted driving, though personally that's just a little too removed from the road for me.

People are different, of course. I find I get out of a modern hatchback after a couple of hundred miles and feel tired; I can get out of my SLK and not feel tired after twice as many miles. For me, that's a huge plus.

And, of course, on a sunny Sunday, you can't beat the roof down cruising along some lovely country lanes feeling!

Ben