Organised rides (copied here by Admin from feedback thread)

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iLB

Hello there
Location
LONDON
User3143 said:
:cry:I've had some good rides with some members of this forum. Now I see that the compensation culture has slowly crept into organised rides-unbelievable.

If anyone hands me a disclaimer form to fill out, I will use it to wipe my arse before saying ''Let's just go for a ride'' and be responsible for my own actions should I have an ''off''

:angry:
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
User3143 said:
:cry:I've had some good rides with some members of this forum. Now I see that the compensation culture has slowly crept into organised rides-unbelievable.

If anyone hands me a disclaimer form to fill out, I will use it to wipe my arse before saying ''Let's just go for a ride'' and be responsible for my own actions should I have an ''off''

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=20608

have a look at this....

I happen to think that there are different ways of skinning the cat, and that none of them are neccessarily disclaimer forms. You have to think through what is appropriate to the kind of ride you're organising. Djtheglove's little sortie seems to me to be a good example of the kind of ride where, as long as you know where you're going, and where the dodgy junctions are, and as long as you edit out anybody who is clearly off their face, or misbehaving, then that's fair and reasonable. But then again, had one of the 'young people' been crushed under a truck, dj might have faced the wrath of the grieving parents...

none of us really knows. And that's the problem.
 
OP
OP
dellzeqq

dellzeqq

pre-talced and mighty
Location
SW2
oxbob said:
Can i ask a silly question? if you go on a ctc organised ride without being a ctc member on your 1st ride you are covered by 3rd party ins, after that you are expected to join the ctc if only to cover your ins liability, never mind bringing cake/making new friends. bonj you seem obsessed with driving anyone who is not of your mindset away!

not a silly question at all - if you zip back to post #38 you'll find a link to the CTC document...
 

PaulB

Legendary Member
Location
Colne
User3143 said:
If anyone hands me a disclaimer form to fill out, I will use it to wipe my arse before saying ''Let's just go for a ride'' and be responsible for my own actions should I have an ''off''

As would most of us but what if (God forbid) one of us comes a serious cropper and is in a coma or worse and that person has a grieving next-of-kin who doesn't share our cycling cameraderie? What's to stop them seeking, or even being steered towards, some form of compensation?
 
PaulB said:
As would most of us but what if (God forbid) one of us comes a serious cropper and is in a coma or worse and that person has a grieving next-of-kin who doesn't share our cycling cameraderie? What's to stop them seeking, or even being steered towards, some form of compensation?

Donoghue v Stevenson 1932

Lord Atkin's statement about the foreseeability of the effects of one's acts on one's neighbours is central to the existence of a duty of care in the law of tort/delict, especially on the then developing nascent tort/delict of negligence. In this judgement he formulates what is commonly known as the "neighbour principle".

"There must be, and is, some general conception of relations giving rise to a duty of care, of which the particular cases found in the books are but instances. ... The rule that you are to love your neighbour becomes in law you must not injure your neighbour; and the lawyer's question: Who is my neighbour? receives a restricted reply. You must take reasonable care to avoid acts or omissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour. Who, then, in law, is my neighbour? The answer seems to be — persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as long as so affected when I am directing my mind to the acts or omissions that are called in question. "


It seeems to me you have a duty of care to just about anybody you come into contact with, if your behaviour could adversely affect them.

eg If you are walking down a street, you have a duty of care to any other pedestrian you come across not to eg roam drunkenly across the pavement and force them into the road.
eg If you invite anyone into your home you have a duty of care not to let them be injured by any deficiencies in the maintenance of your home (if it is your responsibility).

This is appropriate and no more than common sense.

You certainly have a duty of care if you are organising a bike ride, but no more or less than you do in any other circumstance, to be sensible. No amount of disclaimer or consent form filling is going to change this.

And every other participant has a duty of care to each other, as well as a basic responsibility for themselves. They are adults with capacity, and free agents and just by participating in the ride, they do not absolve themselves from responsibility for their own well being. Responsibility for themselves is not transferred to the ride organiser en bloc.

If the ride is organised in a way that any reasonable person would consider sensible, there would be no breach of duty of care. If someone is killed/injured on a ride, the question would be: Could the ride organiser reasonably have foreseen that a rider would get killed/injured in that manner? For a sensible ride, the answer is always going to be no.

If someone hits a pothole on the ride and comes off, I think that would be so remote from the ride organiser's actions that there would be no duty of care. Not sure whether there could be a duty of care for a preceding rider to warn those bunched behind though.

Just my take on it, and of course IANAL.

Jonathan
 
I am organising a CC ride later this year, and in view of the consternation raised by this thread, I have decided that I need to cover myself with a minimum of documentation. Each rider will be issued with a "London and Home Counties Cycle Chat Ride Organisation, Information and Butt-Covering Pack". This pack should be carried and referred to whenever necessary during the ride, and participants will each need to bring a small cycle trailer to accommodate it.

Provisional Contents:

1) Schedule of Proposed Route and all possible variations, notated with gradients, altitudes, road surface types, restricted areas, non-photographable buildings, etc.
2) Ride leader organisation chart.
3) List of participant riders and profiles: age, cycling experience and ability level, relevant qualifications, disabilities, medicaments, languages spoken fluently, mental health history, known STDs, anger management issues, psychological profile confirming suitability to ride in group context. make, model, age and state of bike, any modifications made, tools carried, insurance value.
4) Contacts list for each rider: mobile, home contact details, next of kin, preferred funeral arrangements
5) Copies of GP's certificate of fitness for each rider
6) Schedule of policies to be adopted on ride, covering: pothole warnings, communication of directions, backmarking, rest stops, alcohol consumption, smoking policy, accident procedures, dealing with horses.
7) List of essential equipment: helmets, protective clothing, hiviz, body armour, bivvy bags, emergency rations, flares, tools, spare parts and tubes, leader identification vests, maps, etc
8) List of First aid kit contents
9) Local and regional weather reports
10) Risk assesments of : weather, route, planned stop points, traffic, road works, any potentially bolshy riders, etc
10) Copies of food hygiene and trading standards assessments for planned food stops
11) Addresses & phone nos of local hospitals, police stations, toilets, bike shops, injury compensation lawyers
12) Copies of public liability, personal injury insurance and life assurance policies.
13) Copy of Police permission to ride en masse.
14) Disciplinary and arbitration procedure to be followed in case of disputes en route.
15) Signed Disclaimer form for each rider.
16) Signed forms giving consent to be photographed/video'd, giving up all copyrights.
17) Copies of Criminal Records Bureau checks for all adults in case U18s on ride.
18) Feedback forms for completion at end of ride.
19) Complaint form
20) Order forms for CC fashion wear.

That should cover me.
 

ianrauk

Tattooed Beat Messiah
Location
Rides Ti2
You forgot the "Clipless Moment Disclaimer"
 
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