Pop Quiz: Priorities and assigning fault in an RTC

[glenn forger]

The copper is a numpty. But then, the scary part is that he's reflecting how an awful lot of people think.

 

[mjr]

[quoting] I've just got back from talking to the motorcyclist (who was in the back of an ambulance) and he claims it's the driver's fault because he (the motorcyclist) had right of way, and he's technically right, but he (the driver) has got to pull out some time. It's just one of those things. No further action.

A great encouragement for everyone to sign up to www.RoadJustice.org.uk - it's not just people on bikes who suffer from current traffic policing.

 

[biking_fox]

OK. Like most people, I thought that it was definately the emerging driver who was at fault. As pointed out upthread, the responsibility is on the emerging driver to ensure that it is safe to pull out. I also think that the flashing is misleading and that the motorcyclist should be alert and vigilant but those are really side issues.

However... that was not the assessment of the officer present at the scene. His conclusion? Nobody is at fault.

Nobody.

Now forgive me if I'm paraphrasing, I'm trying to be objective and not put words into people's mouths, but I may not be able to remember exactly. What he said was:

I've just got back from talking to the motorcyclist (who was in the back of an ambulance) and he claims it's the driver's fault because he (the motorcyclist) had right of way, and he's technically right, but he (the driver) has got to pull out some time. It's just one of those things. No further action.
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@w00hoo_kent I think you called it right

Note OB's use of the phrase right of way. One for the pedants.

I'm not sure if the motorbike (it was actually a scooter) was filtering. According to the driver he came speeding down there... Similarly I don't recall if the driver was turning left or right. Might be worth noting they were both young lads so inexperienced.

So basically the lesson for us as cyclists is to be vigilant at junctions with minor roads, because he's got to pull out some time.

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This is a common belief I think - "It was just an accident, I didn't mean for anything bad to happen". The fact that you could have completely avoided such things by thinking a bit, or waiting, or whatever, seems pass them by. Accidents happen. Few seem to care enough to act to prevent them happening.

Everybody at fault would be less bad than Nobody. Filtering through traffic does require some care on your part.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

As I say, I had inside info and initially did put 'nobody' because it's the answer I was expecting rather than wanting. In my case the police officer wanted to prosecute the minicab that had me off of the motorbike for Careless as she'd admitted "I got a call in the other direction, I didn't look, I just put my foot down and U-turned to get out of everybody's way' but the CPS ruled as she'd been flashed out (probably by a driver thinking she was just pulling in to traffic, not U-turning) the case had insufficient chance of success so was dropped. I had been filtering well to the right of traffic, but she came fast out of traffic two car lengths in front of me. I believe I had time to swear before I hit her, but my brain blacks out accidents, so I don't know for sure. She was perpendicular to the road when I went over her bonnet.

 

[benb]

the CPS ruled as she'd been flashed out (probably by a driver thinking she was just pulling in to traffic, not U-turning) the case had insufficient chance of success so was dropped

So the position of the CPS is that if someone flashes you out, it absolves you of all responsibility to check whether it is safe to do so.
Odd, I missed that bit in the Highway Code.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

Definitely did in 1992, maybe they've tightened it up since... :-)
To be fair, the copper who was dealing with the case was also a motorbike rider and was pretty tee'd off with it all too. I think with the road side confession he was hoping for an open and shut case.

They do really need next to nothing to decide it isn't worth trying and it looks like the CPS position has filtered down to the police so they are starting to figure 'not worth it' too. Bring on driverless cars and segregation :-/

 

[Dommo]

I guess given the audience it's no great surprise that so many of us selected the driver pulling out, but I suppose mostly out of hope... I guess we all really know what the real answer is likely to be in an RTA. Best just to avoid it - filtering past cars slowing or stopped near junctions is something to be done with extreme care. My riding is all done in London so most of the time I expect a pedestrian to just stroll in front of the vehicles at a stop.

 

[w00hoo_kent]

To be fair the OP didn't state what direction the vehicles were going in, the bike could have been coming from the right, the car that flashed from the left with the car pulling out turning right across the lane. It all still works. There's just some assumption going on that the motorbike was riding in a careless, or dangerous manner.

 

[NorthernDave]

The Highway Code is quite clear:

167
DO NOT overtake where you might come into conflict with other road users. For example

• approaching or at a road junction on either side of the road
• where the road narrows
• when approaching a school crossing patrol
• between the kerb and a bus or tram when it is at a stop
• where traffic is queuing at junctions or road works

So, if the motorcyclist was passing the flashing car, depending on your take on the old
"filtering vs overtaking" argument, this might lead you to think that the motorcyclist might be responsible..?

Just my two pen'north.

 

[mr_cellophane]

Just had a call from LV about my collision, they are paying as the woman pulled out from a side road, so was at fault.

 

[classic33]

Just had a call from LV about my collision, they are paying as the woman pulled out from a side road, so was at fault.

Nice to hear you're getting your case settled.

 

[jonny jeez]

Flashing headlights don't mean anything. The emerging driver's at fault.

Actually it does mean something, it means the headlight bulbs are working.

My bike driving instructor once asked me what a green light meant, I said that it was safe to proceed, he said...nope, just means the green bulb is working, assume nothing else.

 

[jonny jeez]

I've got it. It was the police's fault for being dicks.

And the prize goes too.....

 

[summerdays]

Actually it does mean something, it means the headlight bulbs are working.

My bike driving instructor once asked me what a green light meant, I said that it was safe to proceed, he said...nope, just means the green bulb is working, assume nothing else.

But not necessarily working normally. And now these new fangled lights it looks like they flash you if they go over a bump!

 

[martint235]

Actually it does mean something, it means the headlight bulbs are working.

My bike driving instructor once asked me what a green light meant, I said that it was safe to proceed, he said...nope, just means the green bulb is working, assume nothing else.

I always thought a green light meant prepare to stop. I watched some advance motoring guy discuss traffic lights once and he insisted that all lights except red meant prepare to stop