The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[Wobblers]

Insults ? You calling me 'sunshine' for example. I now accept that you appear to think you're an expert on something..what on earth it is I don't really know,

You like picking on my posts for some reason and for that I'm grateful - It gives me some light entertainment. If you think my posts are full of so called nasty insinuations then you're reading the forum through blinkers and ignoring the experts on this subject. I'm a mere amateur in that respect.

You think "sunshine" is an insult? What, after you deliberately and insultingly mangling my username and so aggressively accusing me of talking BS, I never dreamed that you'd be so sensitive. Perhaps you should consider, you know, dialing the aggressiveness back a notch? Rather than letting the moderators edit it for you.

 

[ufkacbln]

More "detail" here

Two things that amuse me....

First of all it doesn't seem to occur suggesting life jackets for water borne problems

Secondly the cyclist was on teh way back from a "Beer Festival"

There is no mention of alcohol, so of course the rider could have been sober, but if not, would preventing the accident with a warning about alcohol and cycling be better than the present one

 

[doog]

You think "sunshine" is an insult? What, after you deliberately and insultingly mangling my username and so aggressively accusing me of talking BS, I never dreamed that you'd be so sensitive. Perhaps you should consider, you know, dialing the aggressiveness back a notch? Rather than letting the moderators edit it for you.

I think I might have called you 'Wibble' ....I apologise I didn't realise I 'deliberately 'and 'insultingly' mangled the word Wobble and as such it would have such a devastating effect ..perhaps my irony meter isn't quite in tune but if you'd stuck a smile after that comment we could all have had a collective chuckle and moved on . Additionally I never accused you of BS..did I actually say those words.....I don't think so. Likewise the moderators did something but didn't change anything that might have caused you offence. I had no idea what they did but the post was just as I posted it. (spelling perhaps?)

Trust me if it was that bad I would be in the sin bin - so rest assured it wasnt.

As for the sunshine remark, most would agree that its quite condescending - it has an aggressive kind of tone to it as you well know or you wouldn't have used it. Needless to say where I come from if you said it to a stranger in a pub, you very well might wonder what would happen next.

That aside, its getting daft now - shall we move on...

 

[doog]

Not at all. It's what people who are trained in first aid do. The only weird bit is the assertion of the magical properties of a bike helmet.

You could always get in touch with them (politely) rather than simply complain here - there are contact details at http://www.swanagecoastguard.org.uk/.

[edit]
The MCA has a well-defined complaints procedure published on its website.

I'm struggling to comprehend someone even contemplating complaining about members of a voluntary organisation who actually did a brilliant job in helping a casualty.

More "detail" here

Two things that amuse me....

First of all it doesn't seem to occur suggesting life jackets for water borne problems

There is no suggestion anyone in the water wasn't wearing one.

 

[ufkacbln]

I'm struggling to comprehend someone even contemplating complaining about members of a voluntary organisation who actually did a brilliant job in helping a casualty.

Nope - they are complaining about poorly evidenced advice given by someone unqualified and inexperienced to make the claim about helmets

There is no suggestion anyone in the water wasn't wearing one.

Which is exactly the point, I had assumed that if they were a canoeist they would be wearing one, and of course that it had "saved their life.


So why no photo of the life jacket and the consequent advice:

After all if "..........the value of a wearing cycle helmet showed in the incident." is valid comment, surely "......"the value of a wearing cycle helmet life jacket showed in the incident.

 

[doog]

As I said they are a volunteers. If you really feel that offended that a volunteer out at 0340hrs in the morning saving lives sticks something on facebook that you find objectionable (and unable to prove) then crack on.

I actually used to work with this lot before social media existed and most of their excellent work went unpublished....their usual thing is hanging off 200 foot cliffs or recovering dead bodies from the bottom of them, so lets get things into perspective.

 

[glenn forger]

Tell me more about how a photo of a failed helmet proves it saved a life.

 

[ufkacbln]

Not objectionable, simply unprofessional and unacceptable

There is something called a "Code of Conduct" which covers Social Media..... Health Care Professionals (generic term) should all abide by this.

Does your contribution reveal confidential patient or proprietary business information?
Does your contribution include any information that could directly or indirectly identify a patient under
your care?

In both cases by identifying time and place, and a photograph of the helmet,it could be possible, so this is unprofessional

Get written consent from patients before using images on social media sites

We will assume the unconscious patient gave consent in writing before posting photographs of their property

Ensure your contributions are based on fact/evidence;

Ensure that statements are identified as your own, and not the policy of your employer or professional body

As shown many times before there is no real evidence that this helmet "saved a life" there is an opinion, not fact or evidence, they have also failed to identify it as personal opinion.

Does your contribution positively promote your role as a paramedic?

In this case demonstrably not as the claims are ones outside their experience or qualifications, leaving the profession open to criticism


So before we defend "sticking something on social media" lets put those responsibilities into perspective as well

 

[doog]

Not objectionable, simply unprofessional and unacceptable

They aren't professional.....how many times do you need telling, they are volunteers.

If you find that comment 'unacceptable' then contact them ,volunteer for a shift and learn about some priorities in life rather than dripping on about a comment that you have no idea who said...it could have been a volunteer, a paramedic or a member of Dorset Police.

 

[doog]

Not at all. It's what people who are trained in first aid do. The only weird bit is the assertion of the magical properties of a bike helmet.

As an aside and a fellow tourer.. I'm off back into France again next week so the link below your posts caught my eye as part of my route will be your route between the Med and up to Nantes...great write up btw.

I say aside, as I notice you wearing a helmet on the CGOAB journal. Are there magical qualities in France that don't exist here ? It just seems to go totally against your stance on this thread and some of your comments ie You'd have thought that if there were evidence that helmets were helpful it would have come out by now. Oddly enough, it hasn't.

I think you overestimate the ability of the human brain to react logically to information, and underestimate the ability of marketeers to get past the human brain's defences.

Did the marketeers get past your defences or is there something I need to worry about between Narbonne and Nantes..

 

[ufkacbln]

They aren't professional.....how many times do you need telling, they are volunteers.

If you find that comment 'unacceptable' then contact them ,volunteer for a shift and learn about some priorities in life rather than dripping on about a comment that you have no idea who said...it could have been a volunteer, a paramedic or a member of Dorset Police.

The fact they are volunteers is an irrelevance. They have to work to the same standards.

When we worked with the local services such as this they were very professional, both in qualifications and demeanour.

 

[doog]

The fact they are volunteers is an irrelevance. They have to work to the same standards.

When we worked with the local services such as this they were very professional, both in qualifications and demeanour.

Its not an irrelevance. They don't go on diversity courses for example. They are extremely good at what they do but my guess is they have different priorities than you sat behind your screen having a general dig.

I also doubt that the general population of Dorset give a toss.......oh look there's a body at the bottom of Ballard Down that needs recovering, lets make sure our facebook training's in order first

Give it a rest ....

 

[srw]

As an aside and a fellow tourer.. I'm off back into France again next week so the link below your posts caught my eye as part of my route will be your route between the Med and up to Nantes...great write up btw.

I say aside, as I notice you wearing a helmet on the CGOAB journal. Are there magical qualities in France that don't exist here ? It just seems to go totally against your stance on this thread and some of your comments ie You'd have thought that if there were evidence that helmets were helpful it would have come out by now. Oddly enough, it hasn't.

I think you overestimate the ability of the human brain to react logically to information, and underestimate the ability of marketeers to get past the human brain's defences.

Did the marketeers get past your defences or is there something I need to worry about between Narbonne and Nantes..

Oddly enough, since 2010 when we did that tour I've changed my mind, because of the cogent discussions on this forum and elsewhere and my increasing understanding of what the evidence says. It's called risk assessment, it's something I get paid to do in a different context, and it's something I wholeheartedly recommend.

 

[ufkacbln]

Its not an irrelevance. They don't go on diversity courses for example. They are extremely good at what they do but my guess is they have different priorities than you sat behind your screen having a general dig.

I also doubt that the general population of Dorset give a toss.......oh look there's a body at the bottom of Ballard Down that needs recovering, lets make sure our facebook training's in order first

Give it a rest ....

Must admit I have no experience of Ballard Down, the last body I was involved in retrieving was off the Cornish Coast

I think however we can leave the matter to the organisation itself:

Our motto

"Optimum Spera, Pessimum Para"

Means “Hope for the best, prepared for the worst” this gives a true reflection of the professionalism & dedication of the men & women who serve with the team.

To show professionalism you have to be professional in your conduct

 

[doog]

Oddly enough, since 2010 when we did that tour I've changed my mind, because of the cogent discussions on this forum and elsewhere and my increasing understanding of what the evidence says. It's called risk assessment, it's something I get paid to do in a different context, and it's something I wholeheartedly recommend.

I've had more offs when touring than on the road bike or when commuting .....strapping on 4 panniers and following NCN routes is a recipe for disaster for example. I can imagine its not that dissimilar down the canal south of Toulouse (I did the road route).I'm not sure I really understand the rhetoric that people spout about reading stuff on a forum over personal experience..