‘Multiple bikes’ : some Di2 - some not ?

[sevenfourate]

Once you’ve gone Di2…..is there any going back ?

Anyone got a more than one (Road) bike - and a mix of Di2 and traditional cable gears……..and alternate between them as second nature ?

Does anything non Di2 in the fleet ever feel second rate ?

 

[Drago]

I havent "done it", but have tried it thoroughly.

I'm didn't go forward with it, so no way to go back. Its a slick marvel, but does nothing to aid me and im not into tech for techs sake.

The way see it my bikes without suspension, with a fewer number of gears, etc, than my more modern mounts are just as excellent as the day I chose them and the passage of time hasn't altered that. The may lack in comparison, but in absolute terms theyre as great as they ever were.

I wonder if the tech-driven take such a pragmatic view with E shifting? Its not as if we're comparing steam to nuclear fusion here, they both do the same job perfectly well, so is the sheen alone enough to make the old stuff seem aged? You raise an interesting question.

Doubly interesting, the next bike I have my eye on has Di2 GRX. Its also available with a mechanical geartrain but the wheels and othernp trinkets etc are lower spec, so I'll probably stump for the model with E shifting, but would happily eschew that if the spec sheet made the E alone a simple omission.

 

[Webbo2]

I have an old best bike with mechanical Dura ace that still feels great to ride. It doesn’t get used much as my new best bike with Ultegra Di2 is just better. I was going use the Dura ace when the weather wasn’t great but as it’s got rim brakes and carbon wheels it isn’t that great in the wet.
I have a Winter bike with mechanical 105, rim brakes and mudguards which is fine to ride and I tend not to notice any issues usually because I have that much clothing on when riding it. That becomes the issue.
Apparently operating the Di2 buttons can be an issue with thick gloves.
If I won the lottery I would stick mudguards on the Di2 bike and use that for winter and buy another Di2 bike for summer .

 

[super_davo]

Once you’ve gone Di2…..is there any going back ?

Anyone got a more than one (Road) bike - and a mix of Di2 and traditional cable gears……..and alternate between them as second nature ?

Does anything non Di2 in the fleet ever feel second rate ?

I have exactly this and have now reduced my non Di2 bikes down to one (three Di2, one each of 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace.
It doesn't feel second rate in use but it is more effort keeping running sweet.
I am always on the lookout for a cheap Di2 upgrade kit too.

 

[ColinJ]

Anyone got a more than one (Road) bike - and a mix of Di2 and traditional cable gears……..and alternate between them as second nature ?

If you are only interested in Di2 vs cable then read no further!



If you are also interested in the more general experience of switching between very different gearing systems... read on!

I have bikes with... Campagnolo Ergopower (3*10), Shimano Rapidfire (3*9), Shimano Tiagra (2*10), SRAM Apex (1*11)... and a Frankenstein DIY system (1*6) which uses a bar-end shifter on the left (wrong) side of the handlebar (because the right hand side was already used by a bar-end mirror).

Every time I switch to a different bike there is an adjustment period during which I get used to the replacement system. This normally only takes a few minutes. I have found, however, that a degree of concentration is involved. As long as I don't get distracted I am fine. A few times though I have let my mind wander and then my thumbs can start reaching for the Campagnolo thumb shifters even when not on that bike! That is because about 90% of my adult riding has been on Ergopower-ed bikes.

TBH, I would probably switch to electronic shifting if I could afford to, but there isn't much chance of that unless one of my little projects eventually earns me a decent supplement to my state pension.

 

[Vapin' Joe]

A few times though I have let my mind wander and then my thumbs can start reaching for the Campagnolo thumb shifters even when not on that bike! That is because about 90% of my adult riding has been on Ergopower-ed bikes.

Towards the back end of my cycling days I unwisely switched to Shimano after decades on Campag. I lost count of the number of times I was on a hill which got steeper and I mistakenly shifted to a smaller sprocket because of the difference in operation. It's no joke when you're out of the saddle at 12rpm and your legs suddenly hit a brick wall.

 

[mustang1]

All my bikes are Shimano cables.

But I rode a Di2 bike (with rim brakes!) on Mount Tiede. The Di2 bike was exceptional but not because of the e-gears. The thing that really stuck out was the frame and how good the bike felt. It had zero to do with the gears. Actually I was very impressed with the rim brakes, they were impeccable.

So if I had a Di2 bike, I wouldn't consider the gears to be it's standout feature although it's nice to have. I suppose. No, the standout feature for me is always how the bike feels. Will the bike change gears quickly, regardless of if it's cable or electronically operated? That's what I want.

If all bikes from now onwards had e-gears, I would not be bothered either way. Ditto if all bikes were cable-geared. As long as they change gears quickly and accurately while giving good feedback, that's enough for me.

Edit: fixed typo
Edit2: fixed more typos and dumb grammar

 

[sevenfourate]

The Di2 bike was exceptional but not because of the e-gears. The thing that really stuck out was the frame and how good the bike felt.

I had many thoughts writing my original few questions…..

Included in that - that by default ‘many’ Di2 equipped machines are likely modern / lightweight / carbon / aero blah blah. So it would never just be a direct cable vs electric comparison.

But - I just let it ride (sic) and thought I’d see what responses came. Your thoughts make alot of sense in my head too. I’ve literally just tried my first Di2 bike (While openly considering one in the very near future) - and am not sure if I was blown away by the gearing per-se: or just more so how the / an Ultra modern: Full Carbon construction, shorter cranks, Di2, Ultegra, a Carbon Cockpit, a weight of just 7.5kg etc etc - bike felt. The whole experience was off the Planet different to my previous machinery experiences. And I’ve absorbed that for a week before writing. So this isn’t a lustful / blinkered immediate response. I’m also not convinced (all) that same Tech is what I NEED however.

That aside - thanks for your detailed response. Much of that aligns with my thoughts and ‘experiences’ perhaps too…..

 

[sevenfourate]

If you are only interested in Di2 vs cable then read no further!



If you are also interested in the more general experience of switching between very different gearing systems... read on!

I have bikes with... Campagnolo Ergopower (3*10), Shimano Rapidfire (3*9), Shimano Tiagra (2*10), SRAM Apex (1*11)... and a Frankenstein DIY system (1*6) which uses a bar-end shifter on the left (wrong) side of the handlebar (because the right hand side was already used by a bar-end mirror).

Every time I switch to a different bike there is an adjustment period during which I get used to the replacement system. This normally only takes a few minutes. I have found, however, that a degree of concentration is involved. As long as I don't get distracted I am fine. A few times though I have let my mind wander and then my thumbs can start reaching for the Campagnolo thumb shifters even when not on that bike! That is because about 90% of my adult riding has been on Ergopower-ed bikes.

TBH, I would probably switch to electronic shifting if I could afford to, but there isn't much chance of that unless one of my little projects eventually earns me a decent supplement to my state pension.

No hugely interesting and VERY valid Colin. I think my musings absolutely also incorporated not just perhaps changing across from cable to electric gearing. But also flitting between brands of gearing, different eras, different types of system, different gear sets etc - and how seamless people find hopping from one saddle to the next. So your thoughts are really interesting…..

In saying that - I was also specifically interested in those regularly riding bikes in their own fleet that were Di2 and non Di2 equipped respectively. And when I asked if the non Di2 always felt ‘Second rate’ - I was very aware that bike by default may be older / heavier / non Carbon / rim braked blah blah - as @mustang1 eluded to in his post above. It was never / unlikely to have been a straightforward direct comparison…….



*I’d just ridden a few miles down to my LBS on a gorgeous Thursday Morning last week on my 22” / Adult BMX - when I happened upon a Customer collecting his £10k’ish modern Aero, Carbon, Dura-Ace Di2 equipped bike after a “Service” (New tyres, chain, most of the drivetrain and more replaced through wear) costing £1800 🤣.

After a conversation he said ‘Help yourself to a ride if you’d like’ - which I jumped at the chance of.

The difference was hard to process. Between my road bikes and his. And my days chosen weapon and his ! 🤣

And it was ‘change’ for me in so many areas. And it’s easy not to get blinded by some of the Tech and mistake lust for actual genuine need. I’m not really a ‘straight line guy’ who actively seeks and chases setting records doing “50 miles” as quick as he can. I enjoy cross terraining, bumping off the odd kerb, hitting a backroad; and doing a bit of exploring. So whilst being KG’s lighter, having 60mm deep aero wheels, owning a full aero frame might be ultra modern - I’m not wholly aware of if all that would genuinely be of benefit or even a detriment (?) to me. Would I enjoy owning that - is an entirely different question of course 😁

But irrespective of the riding I do, the terrain I ride or the speed I do it at - I do think Di2 would appeal to me from a riding perspective. Hence this post !

 

[PaulSB]

I ride three bikes:
Cervelo C3 - 10 years old - mechanical. Mainly winter now. Road.
Cervelo Caledonia 5 - five months old - di2. Summer/good weather. Road
Kinesis ATR-V3 - two years old - di2. All weathers. Gravel and road

The C3 was, in some respects, cutting edge in 2016 when I bought it. I thought it was and still is a magnificent bike, by far the best ride I'd ever owned. It took me two years to decide on how best to replace it, so concerned was I that I wouldn't find anything that suited me better. This summer she became my dry weather winter bike and will be superb for this use.

The Caledonia is the natural progression from the C3. Is it cutting edge? I don't know. It is another magnificent bike and was the right choice. The target was to address the fact I'm ten years older and I get real, tangible benefits from this machine. Of the two which is the better bike? It's hard to say as I feel they're very comparable. The C3 is more comfortable but is 34mm tyres compared with 32s on the Caledonia. I think moving to 34s will happen next spring.

The Kinesis was purchased to do everything; gravel first and foremost, winter riding and a back up summer bike. She does it all very competently.

Two bike with di2 and one mechanical. Can I feel the difference? Yes. Does it concern me? No. There is no doubt for me that di2 is an improvement, a luxury one but definitely a step forward. Then I embrace all technology in every walk of life that is RELEVANT to me. I won't buy tech just because it's new.

 

[super_davo]

From my experience if you are expecting Di2 to massively transform your riding, unless you are racing and care about instantaneous response of your button clicking to shifting, you will be disappointed. Even then you can equalise the difference by a bit of planning ahead, shifting as the road rises falls etc. rather than waiting to feel the need (you will have more success with this if your racing is timetrialling than bunch though).

The absolutely massive difference is in maintenance and the fact 'it just works'. You can leave a summer bike unused for months, just charge up the batteries again and it will work just as well as when as you left it. Modern 12 speed has enough range whilst retaining close spacing that I can do a flat 10 mile time trial or an Alpine gran fondo without changing anything. The Di2 integration with Garmin is magic, being able to do things like press a button on the top of your shifter to immediately bring up the map is a godsend when navigating unfamiliar routes. Shifts on mechanical are crisp when you've got new cables, perfectly aligned mech hangers and everything is clean and lubed, but it needs to stay that way so if you don't have time between a wet ride and the next to do that maintenance it can start to feel ropey. Di2 doesn't need that - obviously you need a clean chain and cassette to get the best out of it but its much more tolerant of 'real world abuse'. When it first came out people used to say things like 'but how will you fix it on the side of the road if it breaks' but that rarely gets said anymore because you don't get snapped cables on the side of the road and whilst not impossible to break it happens so infrequently it ceases to be in your thoughts.

It doesn't even need to be expensive - I've seen loads of new bikes on Hotukdeals for the c£2k mark with 105 or £2.5k with Ultegra, which whilst not cheap, is not a massive premium over the equivalent bike with mechanical. If you wanted to go second hand, there are plenty of old rim brake Di2 bikes for under £500.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I run bar end friction shifters both front and back. It just works, never goes out of adjustment, muscle memory means slick shifting each time. Maintenance is just replacing the outers once every 30,000 miles or so. At which point I will do the cables as well whilst I am at it. Lever position gives you instant feedback on the gear you are in and how many gears up or down you have left to shift.

My history of gearing is

1970s Single speed, 3 speed Sturmey Archer
1980s Single speed, down tube friction shift
1990s down tube friction shift, indexed trigger shift
2000s down tube friction shift, DC hydraulic index shift 9 speed
2010s STI rim brake 10 speed, DC hydraulic index shift, twist shift Rohloff 14 speed, bar end indexed rear, friction front, 3 speed Sturmey Archer
2020s Bar end friction shift front and rear, 3 speed Sturmey Archer

Unlike DI2 no charging necessary and could be left indefinitely and bar end friction shift just work. The bar ends will work with anything from 5 to 13 speed at the rear.

 

[Sharky]

Technology certainly seems to have improved since one of my earlier bikes (a Bates) which had a seat tube double clanger lever mech and a steel Williams C34 double chain set.

And I wish I could go now as fast as I did then!

 

[esoxlucius]

A lot of my old previous bikes were aluminium, and I didn't mind them one bit, they did the job for me. Then I moved over to carbon, not necessarily because I needed to, but just because it was the new thing.

And my old previous bikes were rim brakes, which I didn't mind one bit, they did the job for me. Then I moved over to disc brakes, not necessarily because I needed to, but just because they were the new thing.

And all my bikes, old and current, have all been mechanical shifting, and I don't mind mechanical one bit, it does the job for me. The thing is, I probably have a couple more shiny new bikes left in me yet, and history tells me that, although I certainly don't need electronic shifting, it is probably something which I will swerve into eventually.

I seem to evolve whether I need to or even want to.

 

[HLaB]

Only ever hired DI2/ Sram Etap my self. DI2 didn't seem much of a game changer over my Dura Ace to make me want to change. And whilst I guess Id get used to it, the buttons on DI2 weren't in the right place for me. I preferred Etap as it was much more ergonomic/ intuitive, but it needed a recharge at the bike shop every 2-3days. My friends who have Etap though say it was probably overused and their's last for months. With me though it would probably be overused too 🤔