11sp rear derailleur on a 10 sp. block??

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Spoked Wheels

Legendary Member
Location
Bournemouth
I don't remember the actual numbers but the space between sprockets on a 11 speed cassette is smaller than on a 10, 9, 8. So a 1mm pull, the 10 speed derailleur moves Xmm but using a 11 speed derailleur then a 1mm pull the derailleur would move < Xmm. Assuming the same shifter is used.
 

Tojo

Über Member
I think the pull ratio was changed for 11 speed. Google may help

That will not matter if you read what he says, he will be still using the 10spd shifters.......:banghead:
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
That will not matter if you read what he says, he will be still using the 10spd shifters.......:banghead:
With an 11 speed mech. Which uses a different pull ratio. So one click = 3.22mm mech travel but the sprockets are 3.95mm apart.
 
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Tojo

Über Member
With an 11 speed mech. Which uses a different pull ratio. So one click = 3.22mm mech travel but the sprockets are 3.95mm apart.

But the RD only moves the amount that the shifter takes......So if you use a 10spd cassette and 10spd shifters it WILL move the correct amount....:cuppa:
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
But the RD only moves the amount that the shifter takes......So if you use a 10spd cassette and 10spd shifters it WILL move the correct amount....:cuppa:
That isn't correct!

The point at which the gear cable is attached moves by the amount that the shifter pulls the cable by, but that point is effectively attached to a lever which moves the body of the derailleur. If you attach the cable somewhere else, for example by putting the cable the wrong side of the attaching bolt, then it messes up the indexing.

I have put a 9 speed MTB rear mech on my CX bike because it works with the 10 speed road shifters AND a 10 speed MTB cassette. A 10 speed MTB mech does NOT work properly.
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
But the RD only moves the amount that the shifter takes......So if you use a 10spd cassette and 10spd shifters it WILL move the correct amount....:cuppa:
Well no. The mech works as a series of levers which translates the cable pull into movement of the mech according to a certain ratio. This ratio is different for 10 and 11 speed mechs so they will move different distances for a given cable pull.

The distance travelled by the mech is the product of the cable pull and the pull ratio. Which is how I came to my above figures using 10sp cable pull multiplied by 11sp pull ratio.
 
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winjim

Smash the cistern
If you attach the cable somewhere else, for example by putting the cable the wrong side of the attaching bolt, then it messes up the indexing.
Although this can sometimes be utilised as a bodge to get different systems working together. I think some Shimergo setups do this.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
That will not matter if you read what he says, he will be still using the 10spd shifters.......:banghead:

Oh it does. I have 8 speed Dura Ace. I can not use 8 speed Ultegra shifters or indeed 10 speed shifters. My 8 speed Ultegra will work with anything from 8 th 10.

Shimano kept all the later mechs with the same pull ratio. It's down to the parallelogram design.

So I will send you a sticking plaster for your head. Are you educated now. It's just like campag doesn't mix with Shimano because of the pull ratio. SRAM use the same ratios with 8 to 10 speeds
 

Tojo

Über Member
Okay lets settle this, I have got said items, I will get my bikes and cross apply and I will honestly supply the results...I personally think it will work, but we will see....:whistle:
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
I wish you had found that before, because I've just obliged myself to service my mates bike for nowt to use it for the changeover and I'm suspecting it will need a new chain + other bits and bob's.........Bugger.......:surrender:........:rofl:
Ah well, it's always good to repeat experiments, just to check!
 
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