20 mph urban limits coming.

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Mr Pig

New Member
It doesn't really matter what how the cameras are used at present. The worry is that the technology is now in place to monitor individuals almost anywhere they go and could be aligned for this purpose very quickly.

I think it's right to worry about what might happen if our government did not remain benevolent. Things can and do change. I think George Orwell was spot on.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
The follow up article User1314 posted had a comically funny story. A lot of the comments are here are true though.

I'm cynical about the ability to catch people doing above 20 in 20 zones because of the ability to catch them or physically stop them. The thing I always find curious is the variability of speed bumps even within the same area/local authority. Some seem to be shallow/worn down/next to useless whilst others are extremely sharp and pointy and give a nasty clang even at perhaps 10 or 15mph (even for those places where it's a speed bumped 30 area not a 20).

On the other hand on average speed cameras, surely this would only be affective on linear "rat runs" or closed loop estates. For many estates there are far too many exits so I can't see how average speed cams would work that well?
 

gambatte

Middle of the pack...
Location
S Yorks
I'd be happy if they massively increased the use of ANPR cameras. Removing all the unlicenced, untaxed, untested vehicles would be a big beginning
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Well I certainly think if one is a fan of ANPR it has to be extended into estates/fringes of estates. I spotted someone with blue lights and a dodgy exhaust pimped up 106 going round from estate to estate and the south sheffield motorbike maniac seen on many a ride/journey by myself, doubt neither have been near an ANPR.
 

Abitrary

New Member
The irony of the 20mph limit is that it will actually speed up the flow of traffic.

Anyone with a basic grasp of advanced mathematics and queueing theory will understand that.
 

marinyork

Resting in suspended Animation
Location
Logopolis
Amusingly enough Sheffield City Council is considering a "Manor North" traffic calming area which would be "self sustaining". LOL.
 

Night Train

Maker of Things
Hmmm, means I could still legally drive faster then I do outside schools at chucking out time. I rarely do much more then 10mph outside schools when there are kids about. It is too difficult as the kids are all over the road, the Mums are throwing open car doors without looking and the double parking is getting silly.

But seriously, if it works then great. I am a bit unsure that the variable limits would be working at the best times but, hey, if the limit is there then it is there. Better then humps. The only thing I am not sure about is the accuracy of the cameras. Keeping to 20mph, or around about that to make good progress where it is safe, is difficult without constant checking of the speedo. That means more time spent not looking at the road when looking is needed most.

A quick button press that sets a max speed of 20, 30, 40, etc would be good as it save looking all the time.

There is already a 'black box' that can log the last 10mins or something before an accident. There is also a 'black box' that prevents a vehicle from exceeding the speed limit by tracking the location of the vehicle and the speed limit of the road it is on. Then there is the plan to track all vehicles for road toll charging. The tracking would also be able to do continuous speed checks along with location and that would show up excess speed for the location even if it is below the local limit. However, it would also track the movments of every driver all the time which brings a civil liberties issue.
I don't mind the black box but I don't want to be tracked.
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
Abitrary said:
The irony of the 20mph limit is that it will actually speed up the flow of traffic.

Anyone with a basic grasp of advanced mathematics and queueing theory will understand that.

That is not what happended in Denmark; mean speeds decreased in 30km zones.

Interestingly, in the Netherlands, The Dutch Traffic Safety Association found that only 14% of motor vehicles drove slower than 30 km/hour (in 30km zones), but the vast majority of the 85% did not drive faster than 45 km/hour.
 

Cyclista

New Member
Location
Ryde
20 MPH limits in some areas have been in force in Portsmouth for a number of months now and although I no longer live in Pompey so no longer spend as much time blatting about the city on the bike, I do work there and commute every day.
The 20MPH seems to have made very little difference to either the attitude of the drivers or the speed at which they travel, I see more PCSO's telling off people on bikes for riding on the pavement then I do Police Officers talking to drivers on the side of the road, even though 10 minutes spent with a camera on Edinburgh Road would show you plenty of cars and buses doing 30-40 down a 20MPH road with one of the electronic signs to tell people that they are speeding and one of those large yellow signs saying "3 fatal and 5 serious road accidents in 5 years", yet I have never seen anyone in a car pulled over on that stretch of road, despite commuting down it almost every day for 10 years.
I do not believe that just changing the rules of the road is going to affect how drivers act in any meaningful way, at least in the short term, unless there is sufficient enforcement for the Police which seems to be sorely lacking at the moment.
 

Animal

New Member
Location
East Mids
Abitrary said:
The irony of the 20mph limit is that it will actually speed up the flow of traffic.

Anyone with a basic grasp of advanced mathematics and queueing theory will understand that.

Which rules out all those rush-hour drivers who habitually accelerate from the lights at full throttle within sight of the next queue, hurtle towards it, and engage ABS at the last possible moment to avoid collision.
 
Night Train said:
A quick button press that sets a max speed of 20, 30, 40, etc would be good as it save looking all the time.

I never used cruise controls until I discovered how much easier it is to stick to a limit simply by sticking cruise control on, removes all the subjectivity.
 
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