2015 Rugby World Cup **Potential spoilers**

[PhilDawson8270]

Forward pass; relative to the player, specifically at elite level their hands/arms.

Knock on; relative to the opposition's dead ball line.

A pass can move forwards due to momentum and be legal. A knock on can't.

Thanks, played for quite a few years. I just do what the ref says

 

[subaqua]

The space saved all depends on whether you're hanging the new telly on the wall, otherwise you need a base which takes up almost as much room as the CRT. I've got a Sony Bravia W series that's about 8 years old I think. Still going strong with no issues at all. It was flipping expensive at the time though.

As for rules, when I played I just tried to learn the ones that applied to being a lock. There were enough of them.

there are no rules. only Laws

 

[AndyRM]

Japan were disappointing today. Didn't look like the same side. Scotland were very good.

Japan losing their number 8 was a big blow, that guy is some player and they seemed to lose it after he went off.

Scotland's defence was excellent. Need to back yesterday up with a strong performance against Team USA on Sunday which we look more than capable of. Despite a poor looking record, Cotter has us playing with a belief I've not seen in some time from Scotland.

 

[HF2300]

There are lots of ways it can be improved that address your issues.

• You could reduce the number of players on the pitch to say, 13.
• You could remove the rucks and force a more simple play of the ball to promote free open play
• This has an extra effect of simplifying the rules of rucks, mauls, and line outs
• The scrum could be pretty much uncontested and ball in at the 2nd row. Allowing forwards to be smaller, faster, and fitter. For a more exciting game, it also opens the game up to a wider a range of pitches, due to less damaged caused by forwards.
• To promote try scoring you could lower the reward for a drop goal
• To speed the game up further, and lean towards attacking style games. You could have a restricted number of phases, say 6? Then you have to give it to the other team.

Do this, and you should have your nice, free flowing, fast rugby, with simpler rules that is easier to follow.

But if they did that, you'd reduce it to a game where most teams, most of the time, advance in a line across the pitch for five ineffectual tackles then kick, followed by the other side doing the same ad nauseam.

 

[HF2300]

Eddy mate, this second half thing you said you'd do to Scotland...

Not sure such crowing befits a man of your dignity, @Marmion

 

[GrumpyGregry]

There are a lot of bluddy rules with this game aren't they?! Not even the players know what they are. Several times i've seen the players look at the ref as if to say 'Can i do this now?', or look at one another confusedly. Eee... when i was a kid it was much simpler.

On a side note @GrumpyGregry we've had a Sony flatscreen tv for sixish years and it still works brilliantly.

The single biggest gift a coach can give their players, and so few do, is a thorough knowledge of the Laws of the Game. Then those players can exploit all the opportunities the Laws give them without waiting for a nod from the ref (which should never ever come btw - not the refs job). I can think of a few occasions, playing as 8, when knowing what was allowed and what wasn't enabled me to score tries in ways the defenders, in their ignorance, didn't consider they needed to defend against, or, conversely, to prevent tries from being scored. On one occasion I remember my own skipper ranting at me like a loon for wrecking a scoring opportunity because he thought the ref had given a peno against me when the ref was indictating a try! And another when the ref came up to me in the bar after the game and said "Sorry. Having thought about it, it was a try. What are you drinking?"

But like @martint235 says I only really learnt, as a player, those that applied to participants of the dark arts of scrum, line-out, kick-off, tackle, ruck and maul and as a ref had to learn all manner of wonderful and surprising offside laws'n'stuff so as to ping "the girls" whenever possible.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It is a problem that RU haven't really come to terms with yet. The rules they've introduced to make the game more free flowing and less attritional are difficult to enforce, subjective and largely incomprehensible to people who watch the game.
Until the game's governing bodies get to grips with the fundamental issue with professional RU thateveryone's bigger and fitter than the game was designed for so there are too many players on the pitch, I can't see it improving. I guess much tighter limitations on substitutions would help though

The Laws have always been largely incomprehensible to people who watch the game. Especially those who only watch it on TV.
The Laws have always been largely incomprehensible to people who play the game too. Especially those who only play community rugby.
I come from a generation when the game was refereed in complete silence. The ref said not a word all match, and I enjoyed the transition to a more communicative style of game management though I think some of the top boys simply talk too much for the players to comprehend.

The number of players on the pitch is just fine btw, even at the elite level. Plenty of players, plenty of sides, seem to be able to find space when they look for it. especially in the last 20 mins when the one-on-one war of attrition starts to tell. The spectacle isn't all about flinging the ball around and pinning back your ears and giving it some beans as you gas towards the try line.

But I agree about the substitutions; I'm not a fan of tactical subs. At any level of the game.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I think it's called Rugby League isn't it?

And iirc folk have ample opportunity to play and watch that excellent game if they want to.

But it isn't Rugby Union. The dynamics of the breakdown are a key to the enjoyment of the Union game for thousands of players and spectators. The physical contest of scrum and line-out (I'd ditch "lifting" supporting pillars if it was me) and the 8 man team-work required for a forward unit to work well are what attract many, many people to the game.

Rugby League is a great sport. It isn't the evolutionary destiny of contemporary Rugby Union though.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The opposite of most international refs, apart from the fact that many of them don't bother with learning the bits about forward play and just toss a mental coin.

The opposite of most refs, in fact. In our society less than 10% are former forwards. But even ex-forwards toss the odd mental coin as there is something illegal about every scrum and lineout if you look closely enough. But that is where game management, rather than refereeing takes over. "It was illegal but did it make any difference?" Of course that is not applied in equal measure to every Law in every circumstance - some stuff is always material.

And, for better or worse, in most games at the elite level, scrums are just restarts

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Thanks, played for quite a few years. I just do what the ref says

Best to stick with that. It works. (unlike in the round ball game)

 

[nickyboy]

And iirc folk have ample opportunity to play and watch that excellent game if they want to.

But it isn't Rugby Union. The dynamics of the breakdown are a key to the enjoyment of the Union game for thousands of players and spectators. The physical contest of scrum and line-out (I'd ditch "lifting" supporting pillars if it was me) and the 8 man team-work required for a forward unit to work well are what attract many, many people to the game.

Rugby League is a great sport. It isn't the evolutionary destiny of contemporary Rugby Union though.

The potential evolutionary routes of RU and RL is an interesting topic. Whilst RU scrums are more of a confrontation than RL, they are largely uncontested these days. Lineouts used to be contested but the lifting rules has, in the main, stopped that being the case at the top level. So two key ways to restart the game have become a way for the side putting in to get the ball in most instances.

I'm from a RU background but I find these days that professional RL is a better sporting spectacle than professional RU (as there are, in my view, too many super-fit players on a RU pitch and it becomes boring, one-up, squeeze ball). Conversely, at an amateur level RU is better than RL as there's space for skilful runners

 

[Crackle]

Boo to Scotland beating Japan. I mean they don't normally win, so it was a bit unexpected.

 

[Wafer]

Whilst RU scrums are more of a confrontation than RL, they are largely uncontested these days.

Really? I'm certainly not under that impression, the scrum still needs work but it does seem to be better than 2/3 yrs ago with fewer resets overall. Still seems a bit of a lottery concerning the reffing though but of my limited understanding of the laws, the scrum is an area of particularly dark arts.

Lineouts used to be contested but the lifting rules has, in the main, stopped that being the case at the top level.

I also don't see that... Lineouts actually seem pretty key which is why Hartley being missing for England is such a big deal... At times teams don't really contest them because they want a better platform to defend an expected maul but there still seem to be plenty of lineout steals in the stats....

 

[Kestevan]

The potential evolutionary routes of RU and RL is an interesting topic. Whilst RU scrums are more of a confrontation than RL, they are largely uncontested these days. Lineouts used to be contested but the lifting rules has, in the main, stopped that being the case at the top level. So two key ways to restart the game have become a way for the side putting in to get the ball in most instances.

I'm from a RU background but I find these days that professional RL is a better sporting spectacle than professional RU (as there are, in my view, too many super-fit players on a RU pitch and it becomes boring, one-up, squeeze ball). Conversely, at an amateur level RU is better than RL as there's space for skilful runners

I'm firmly in the opposite camp I'm afraid. I was brought up primarily as an RL player (although I did briefly switch to Union later on). I find watching the modern RL game a very 1 dimensional experience; big fast player gets ball and runs straight at opponent. CRASH. repeat 4 times then hoof it upfield. Interspace with the very occasional exitement if a player manages to slip a tackle....

I think the RL changes to speed up play have removed a significant level of the tactical interplay from the game, and it suffers as a result. Union is a much more nuanced game, with more changes of pace and is in my opinion much more interesting.

The laws (especially around feeding at the scrum) need to be enforced better though.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The potential evolutionary routes of RU and RL is an interesting topic. Whilst RU scrums are more of a confrontation than RL, they are largely uncontested these days. Lineouts used to be contested but the lifting rules has, in the main, stopped that being the case at the top level. So two key ways to restart the game have become a way for the side putting in to get the ball in most instances.

I'm from a RU background but I find these days that professional RL is a better sporting spectacle than professional RU (as there are, in my view, too many super-fit players on a RU pitch and it becomes boring, one-up, squeeze ball). Conversely, at an amateur level RU is better than RL as there's space for skilful running

There's the challenge. Elite (pro-level) RU has little to do with community (amateur) RU. Showbiz rugby, like RWC, is just that, a spectacle for the entertainment of millions of TV viewers and a few tens of thousands lucky enough to get tickets.

Properly refereed community scrums and line-outs are genuine contests but in showbiz? Just a restart (though England's stats suggest not always a 100% guaranteed outcome restart.) for sure. Chicken and egg though, did refs allow crook feed as no one contested anymore or did no one contest because of crook feed?

RL has always been a better spectator sport than RU imo. Even the best games of RU benefit from fast-forwarding through the tedious stoppages.

I'd downgrade a lot of technical peno's, ones that don't endanger player safety, to free kicks, and I'd introduce mandatory YC's for any players committing a penalty offence in a notional red zone, perhaps the 22, and in tandem I'd reduce penalties awarded in the 22 red zone to two points not three. I think the balance needs to shift away from rewarding the non-offending side with 3 points on a plate to penalising, more heavily, and in a way that creates space, the offenders.