2015 Rugby World Cup **Potential spoilers**

[martint235]

I think the real bone of contention is that the TMO was 'in the ear' of Joubert for other decisions during the game, and when he needed to speak up...there was.
A silence. It would have helped Joubert, the game..but not the Australian XV

So maybe the TMO needs to be taken to task as he's only supposed to be helping with foul play and possible tries.

In the same way you lot are sitting around picking over who is to blame for you being shite, I can sit around making comment as I see things. Or do you want me to not make a comment and interfere with your important words about your team?

That'd be super. Thank you.

I fear Mike Brown will one day do something rash and stupid on the rugby field that will equal, if not exceed, his abundant talent. The red mist descends all too easily on that one and he runs 40 yards to get involved in fights that are none of his business. One day he'll either hurt someone badly or get his lights punched out. Or both.

He does have a tendency to pick fights with people a lot bigger than him.

 

[nickyboy]

The talent pool in England is huge compared to the other rugby playing nations. It wasn't that long ago that more people played rugby in England on a weekend than in the whole SH combined.

Yeah I know that a massive number play rugby in England. The problem is that a load of really, really talented kids never get exposed to great coaching, tough fixtures week in week out. If you look at the routes that current England internationals take its almost exclusively School --> AP team --> International Squad. Almost nobody comes from the local comp, plays for local club age group sides the move on to an AP side. As a result I am sure we're missing out on real talent. I bet NZ hardly miss a single individual

 

[Chromatic]

Delon Armitage is a nasty piece of work. I have a friend 'dealing with' certain parts of the disciplinary process - appeals etc - and he was always taken aback by Delon Armitage's attitude. England ring-fenced their Country with the 'play in England' rule...and the upshot is a weak team. Steve Hansen's comments in today's Guardian are worth considering. Never rated Abandanon...or Easter, Barritt, Robshaw, Parling, Cole. They are just donkeys grazing, watching the racehorses run their course...
I probably have already disliked Joubert passim, but yesterday's performance was mild for him - usually whistle-happy know all at scrum time. This time he screwed up. The knock-on was unfortunate (check the fully extended arm...not the big waft at the ball - as Hogg did in the previous game against Samoa). Like the Wales game - totally full of courage and teamwork. Ireland got well and truly thrashed - for them, and it was lovely to see the Argentine XV so proud. New Zealand? Hmmm...FRance were soulless, leaderless and disappointing. Let's see what happens when the heavy roller comes out to play on Saturday. A great sporting event - we are lucky to be able to watch such a physical challenge, and next weekend organises itself!

England are crap not because of only picking players that play in England, they are crap because of their whole rugby ethos at the moment.
We are too much in thrall to rugby league (I'm not denigrating league, just that there is nothing more to learn from it from a union point of view) and there is too much emphasis on brute force and ignorance. Being a super fit gym monkey with great figues on the bench press etc seems to be far more important than skill, guile, pace and rugby nous..

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Wasn't one of the Argentinian try scorers released by Cardiff Blues last season?

 

[Aperitif]

England are crap not because of only picking players that play in England, they are crap because of their whole rugby ethos at the moment.
We are too much in thrall to rugby league (I'm not denigrating league, just that there is nothing more to learn from it from a union point of view) and there is too much emphasis on brute force and ignorance. Being a super fit gym monkey with great figues on the bench press etc seems to be far more important than skill, guile, pace and rugby nous..

Sure. But also include in your quoting the Steve Hansen article. Couple that with Nickyboy's observations about youth talent slipping through the net and it is some way to explaining the 'malaise'. Add in the 'Business model' of all the elite clubs - home and abroad - and nurturing 'home grown' talent is a tricky job.

 

[Chromatic]

I fear Mike Brown will one day do something rash and stupid on the rugby field that will equal, if not exceed, his abundant talent. The red mist descends all too easily on that one and he runs 40 yards to get involved in fights that are none of his business. One day he'll either hurt someone badly or get his lights punched out. Or both.

Pass the ball to one of his team-mates???

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Yeah I know that a massive number play rugby in England. The problem is that a load of really, really talented kids never get exposed to great coaching, tough fixtures week in week out. If you look at the routes that current England internationals take its almost exclusively School --> AP team --> International Squad. Almost nobody comes from the local comp, plays for local club age group sides the move on to an AP side. As a result I am sure we're missing out on real talent. I bet NZ hardly miss a single individual

England are crap not because of only picking players that play in England, they are crap because of their whole rugby ethos at the moment.
We are too much in thrall to rugby league (I'm not denigrating league, just that there is nothing more to learn from it from a union point of view) and there is too much emphasis on brute force and ignorance. Being a super fit gym monkey with great figues on the bench press etc seems to be far more important than skill, guile, pace and rugby nous..

Academy style age grade selection and attendant coaching camps all revolve around fitness/strength criteria and the ability to perform drills in n.n seconds or less. And they don't have to perform them whilst carrying a ball and pass or kick it at the end of the drill And it is killing our game.

 

[Aperitif]

Wasn't one of the Argentinian try scorers released by Cardiff Blues last season?

Tuculet.
Ireland were in dire need of "The hand of Bod"...

 

[Chromatic]

Academy style age grade selection and attendant coaching camps all revolve around fitness/strength criteria and the ability to perform drills in n.n seconds or less. And they don't have to perform them whilst carrying a ball and pass or kick it at the end of the drill And it is killing our game.

Quite, I read a rugby forum where lots of contributors have children playing age group rugby, almost without exception they lament the fact that it is all about size and strength from almost as soon as a young kid starts playing. The problem is that at that level those criteria work, but as we are seeing the farther up the chain you go the less effective it gets.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Quite, I read a rugby forum where lots of contributors have children playing age group rugby, almost without exception they lament the fact that it is all about size and strength from almost as soon as a young kid starts playing. The problem is that at that level those criteria work, but as we are seeing the farther up the chain you go the less effective it gets.

So what do they do in NZ. Not age group rugby but weight group rugby. You play against people your size not your age.

 

[Fubar]

That was unforgivable, wet ball, tired players and a few minutes of good slow solid possession needed.
Much like England not going for the draw against Wales.

^^^this^^^

 

[Scoosh]

We really wuz robbed !!! ... doesn't change anything, though.

 

[Chromatic]

So what do they do in NZ. Not age group rugby but weight group rugby. You play against people your size not your age.

I didn't know that. Seems eminently sensible for obvious reasons.

 

[Aperitif]

Interesting that there has been comment on RL, the emphasis of 'performance / strength' etc. Shane Williams was one of those that you would fear on a modern rugby union pitch...Sean Edwards, Rob Burrow, Jonathan Davies - even up to Kevin Sinfield 'average to undersized' elite rugbyman - the offerings from League. Billy Whizz is the other obvious example.

Whilst the NZ coach, Steve Hansen, points the finger at UK rugby being like the Premier League in football, and buying the best, there are many players who want to try their hand at Southern Hemisphere rugby and the rewards on offer - hence the high standard and constant influx of hard players from the Islands to compliment the home-grown talent...and 'up' the level of domestic competition. Offer the best an 'Academy' sponsorship, watch the progression and then get a residential qualification...there will always be a rich pool of talent available it seems - fewer agents, more determination to succeed? NZ have five players qualified this time around and England three - Bros. Vunipola and Brad Barritt (who wouldn't get a sniff in a South Africa shirt ).

 

[Wafer]

I do wonder about comparing the Aviva Prem to the French Top 14. Toulon finished top of the league last season losing 10 games, Saints topped the Prem only losing 5.... Yet of course the top French teams have been beating top English team in Europe in recent times. It's not difficult to argue the AP is a high level tough competition in it's own right, more so than the Pro12 and on the above more so than the Top14.

Lots of money in France and indifference about where French players ply their trade don't seem to have worked wonderfully well for the French national team...
Wales are getting players on to central contracts in an effort to keep them in Wales. There are some extreme examples but some of the principle behind England players playing in England makes sense. Australia only relaxed their policy a few months ago and only slightly!

Lancaster started off rocking the boat, making big changes, but over the course of his tenure his selection has become stodgier. New emerging players have had to be 'integrated into the squad' for a year before being allowed to play, unless injuries forced his hand. Rob Baxter reckoned Henry Slade would've had a dozen caps before the RWC had he been in the Southern hemisphere but Lancaster wanted to just have him training with the squad as if to ease in gently....