2021 Brompton C-Line Explore

[FrankCrank]

A curt and pictorally-barren update..

Once in the flat I wasn't expecting to continue to use the Brompton much, however its preferable ride and packaging characteristics in a city environment compared to the Fuji have meant it's remained the chosen steed for the new commute.

The little bleeder recently rolled past 5000 miles; the point where I believe Brompton officially advise it's chucked in the nearest canal (or at least a good chunk of the ally bits are replaced). Being tight / not expecting to be commuting on it forever once the utility-Genesis is finally done the original bits remain; although I have started checking the crankset more regularly for cracks..

It has seen a bit of a drivetrain refresh as the two chains I was running in rotation were both showing beyond 0.5% wear accross most links according to the Shimano tool, so the brand new -already-lengthed-and-waxed KMC item was fitted.

It quickly became apparant that this wasn't playing nicely with the worn rear end; holding fine on the 16T sprocket but skipping under load on the 13T item. Having put up with this through the week as I didn't have the necessary bits in Oxford, the new set of (newer / current style) sprockets and spacers were fitted. I also fitted a new snap ring (which was a bit of a pig as I'd not seated the somewhat reluctant sprockets fully onto the hub) but left the old plastic guard on as there was nowt wrong with it.

Might be my imagination but shifting feels snappier; although this would be unsurprising given the distance the old bits had covered plus the fact that the 13T sprocket was very single-speed-esque in its tooth profile - with no cutaways or other shifting aids on the teeth.

If anyone's made it this far, contrary to Brompton's "bin everything at 2k miles" mantra, I got 5k miles from two waxed chains in rotation on the original sprocket set. Since the chains were still running fine despite their questionable elongation I could have got more (although who knows how much..?) however didn't want to cause any unnecessary wear to the chainring.

Since I don't see a lot of utility use or distance in the bike's future I've stuck to just one chain for now instead of rotating two.

Despite my hopes that the more expensive / ostensibly more corrosion-resistant KMC E8 EPT chain would last longer than the original SRAM PC-10 I actually found the SRAM wore at a slightly lesser rate. Corrosion wasn't really an issue on either - both visibly rusting in areas of contact / wear after getting caught out in the wet but neither suffering rampant surface rust.

So, were I to do it all over again I'd stick to the original chains as they're a lot cheaper; unless I was going to try and be clever by fitting a better quality 10/11sp item.

Finally re. the drivetrain, I'm slightly annoyed that I didn't crop the new chain to 102 links as opposed to 100, as this would have removed the direct divisibility between the no. of links and chainring teeth and likely evened out wear over the chain a bit more as discussed in this thread.

Out of curiousisty when I fitted the new chain I "lengthened" it by 2" (the equivalent of four links / two link-pairs) with my welding-wire chain keeper tool. While this inevitably caused the rear tensioner to sit lower everything otherwise seemed fine - with enough tension on the chain when folded and no additional fouling between components..


In other news the grips are really quite manky now thanks to constant exposure to the vaseline on my hands - noticeably tacky and leaving a sticky, tarry residue on my hands after a ride. Presumably it's time to replace them but I need something that's not rubber and can't currently be arsed with the research.

Future plans are to give it a good clean and ideally cavity wax it now the weather's warmed up, although that currently seems like an insurmountable task. I'm also yet to try the new seatpost tube bush (to see if it will miraculously fit and work without reaming) however I think all of this can wait until I no longer need the bike on a daily basis.

Hey Wafty, that seems awfully wasteful for anyone to follow Brommie recommendations for parts replacement.
A cynic might suspect this a cunning plan to part owners from their hard earned, this on top of a high initial purchase cost.
Glad I'm getting by with a collection of old clunkers

 

[Fastpedaller]

A curt and pictorally-barren update..

Once in the flat I wasn't expecting to continue to use the Brompton much, however its preferable ride and packaging characteristics in a city environment compared to the Fuji have meant it's remained the chosen steed for the new commute.

The little bleeder recently rolled past 5000 miles; the point where I believe Brompton officially advise it's chucked in the nearest canal (or at least a good chunk of the ally bits are replaced). Being tight / not expecting to be commuting on it forever once the utility-Genesis is finally done the original bits remain; although I have started checking the crankset more regularly for cracks..

It has seen a bit of a drivetrain refresh as the two chains I was running in rotation were both showing beyond 0.5% wear accross most links according to the Shimano tool, so the brand new -already-lengthed-and-waxed KMC item was fitted.

It quickly became apparant that this wasn't playing nicely with the worn rear end; holding fine on the 16T sprocket but skipping under load on the 13T item. Having put up with this through the week as I didn't have the necessary bits in Oxford, the new set of (newer / current style) sprockets and spacers were fitted. I also fitted a new snap ring (which was a bit of a pig as I'd not seated the somewhat reluctant sprockets fully onto the hub) but left the old plastic guard on as there was nowt wrong with it.

Might be my imagination but shifting feels snappier; although this would be unsurprising given the distance the old bits had covered plus the fact that the 13T sprocket was very single-speed-esque in its tooth profile - with no cutaways or other shifting aids on the teeth.

If anyone's made it this far, contrary to Brompton's "bin everything at 2k miles" mantra, I got 5k miles from two waxed chains in rotation on the original sprocket set. Since the chains were still running fine despite their questionable elongation I could have got more (although who knows how much..?) however didn't want to cause any unnecessary wear to the chainring.

Since I don't see a lot of utility use or distance in the bike's future I've stuck to just one chain for now instead of rotating two.

Despite my hopes that the more expensive / ostensibly more corrosion-resistant KMC E8 EPT chain would last longer than the original SRAM PC-10 I actually found the SRAM wore at a slightly lesser rate. Corrosion wasn't really an issue on either - both visibly rusting in areas of contact / wear after getting caught out in the wet but neither suffering rampant surface rust.

So, were I to do it all over again I'd stick to the original chains as they're a lot cheaper; unless I was going to try and be clever by fitting a better quality 10/11sp item.

Finally re. the drivetrain, I'm slightly annoyed that I didn't crop the new chain to 102 links as opposed to 100, as this would have removed the direct divisibility between the no. of links and chainring teeth and likely evened out wear over the chain a bit more as discussed in this thread.

Out of curiousisty when I fitted the new chain I "lengthened" it by 2" (the equivalent of four links / two link-pairs) with my welding-wire chain keeper tool. While this inevitably caused the rear tensioner to sit lower everything otherwise seemed fine - with enough tension on the chain when folded and no additional fouling between components..


In other news the grips are really quite manky now thanks to constant exposure to the vaseline on my hands - noticeably tacky and leaving a sticky, tarry residue on my hands after a ride. Presumably it's time to replace them but I need something that's not rubber and can't currently be arsed with the research.

Future plans are to give it a good clean and ideally cavity wax it now the weather's warmed up, although that currently seems like an insurmountable task. I'm also yet to try the new seatpost tube bush (to see if it will miraculously fit and work without reaming) however I think all of this can wait until I no longer need the bike on a daily basis.

If it helps at all, Lidl had handlebar grips (shaped like Brpmpton ones) for 4.99 when I bought some last week.

 

[wafter]

Hey Wafty, that seems awfully wasteful for anyone to follow Brommie recommendations for parts replacement.
A cynic might suspect this a cunning plan to part owners from their hard earned, this on top of a high initial purchase cost.
Glad I'm getting by with a collection of old clunkers

I'd agree to a point and of course remain cynical about a lot of stuff relating to this bike... however the drivetrains do seem to wear at a ferocious rate and I suspect that simply running a single oiled chain with no particular cleaning regime probably would see it all shafted by 2k miles.. as posted in this thread @EltonFrog hit 0.75% wear after less than 1700 miles.

On top of that I suspect much of the target demographic for these bikes aren't "typical" cyclists, and as such the intricacies of actually checking chain elongation are probably lost on them.. so easier just to put a mileage value on it (assuming they even log that, which is debateable).

As for the ally bits, I do actually respect Brompton for acknowledging that fatigue will ultimatley kill certain components.. although equally this also conveniently covers their arses and sells more of their bits..

If it helps at all, Lidl had handlebar grips (shaped like Brpmpton ones) for 4.99 when I bought some last week.

Thanks - I'll take a look but whatever goes on there next needs to be something other than natural rubber!

 

[Gunk]

A curt and pictorally-barren update..

Once in the flat I wasn't expecting to continue to use the Brompton much, however its preferable ride and packaging characteristics in a city environment compared to the Fuji have meant it's remained the chosen steed for the new commute.

The little bleeder recently rolled past 5000 miles; the point where I believe Brompton officially advise it's chucked in the nearest canal (or at least a good chunk of the ally bits are replaced). Being tight / not expecting to be commuting on it forever once the utility-Genesis is finally done the original bits remain; although I have started checking the crankset more regularly for cracks..

It has seen a bit of a drivetrain refresh as the two chains I was running in rotation were both showing beyond 0.5% wear across most links according to the Shimano tool, so the brand new -already-lengthed-and-waxed KMC item was fitted.

It quickly became apparant that this wasn't playing nicely with the worn rear end; holding fine on the 16T sprocket but skipping under load on the 13T item. Having put up with this through the week as I didn't have the necessary bits in Oxford, the new set of (newer / current style) sprockets and spacers were fitted. I also fitted a new snap ring (which was a bit of a pig as I'd not seated the somewhat reluctant sprockets fully onto the hub) but left the old plastic guard on as there was nowt wrong with it.

Might be my imagination but shifting feels snappier; although this would be unsurprising given the distance the old bits had covered plus the fact that the 13T sprocket was very single-speed-esque in its tooth profile - with no cutaways or other shifting aids on the teeth.

If anyone's made it this far, contrary to Brompton's "bin everything at 2k miles" mantra I got 5k miles from two waxed chains in rotation on the original sprocket set. Since the chains were still running fine despite their questionable elongation I could have gotten more (although who knows how much..?) however didn't want to cause any unnecessary wear to the chainring.

Since I don't see a lot of utility use or distance in the bike's future I've stuck to just one chain for now instead of rotating two.

Despite my hopes that the more expensive / ostensibly more corrosion-resistant KMC E8 EPT chain would last longer than the original SRAM PC-10 I actually found the SRAM wore at a slightly lesser rate. Corrosion wasn't really an issue on either - both visibly rusting in areas of contact / wear after getting caught out in the wet but neither suffering rampant surface rust.

So, were I to do it all over again I'd stick to the original chains as they're a lot cheaper; unless I was going to try and be clever by fitting a better quality 10/11sp item.

Finally re. the drivetrain, I'm slightly annoyed that I didn't crop the new chain to 102 links as opposed to 100, as this would have removed the direct divisibility between the no. of links and chainring teeth and likely evened out wear over the chain a bit more as discussed in this thread.

Out of curiousity when I fitted the new chain I "lengthened" it by 2" (the equivalent of four links / two link-pairs) with my welding-wire chain keeper tool. While this inevitably caused the rear tensioner to sit lower everything otherwise seemed fine - with enough tension on the chain when folded and no additional fouling between components..


In other news the grips are really quite manky now thanks to constant exposure to the vaseline on my hands - noticeably tacky and leaving a sticky, tarry residue on my hands after a ride. Presumably it's time to replace them but I need something that's not rubber and can't currently be arsed with the research.

Future plans are to give it a good clean and ideally cavity wax it now the weather's warmed up, although that currently seems like an insurmountable task. I'm also yet to try the new seatpost tube bush (to see if it will miraculously fit and work without reaming) however I think all of this can wait until I no longer need the bike on a daily basis.

I’ve got an almost brand new set of Brompton grips you can have for a beer token, let me know if you want them.

 

[wafter]

I’ve got an almost brand new set of Brompton grips you can have for a beer token, let me know if you want them.

Thanks - really appreciate the offer but if they're the same material as my originals I'd not want to subject them to the same terrible fate!

 

[Gunk]

Thanks - really appreciate the offer but if they're the same material as my originals I'd not want to subject them to the same terrible fate!

 

[wafter]

View attachment 771529

Yup - sadly mine look somewhat different to that now!

 

[Kell]

This week's seen the bike reach around 4550 miles; trumping the Genesis to make it the highest-mileage ride in the stable. I've likely still covered more on my old deceased Giant but that did take 16yrs..

It remains covered in filth thanks to the ravages of the winter weather and the usual minimal provision to guard against this found on the bike..

Once again the little bleeder's had it's hand in my pocket (spoiler, all these bits remain resolutely not attached to it):

View attachment 762470


I'm well aware that fitting the seatpost insert without the necessary reaming will probably only end in disaster, however I have nothing to lose and would welcome an alternative to paying someone to bodge a new one in on my behalf. I suspect this will remain in its bag at least until the current Red Bull-sponsored shim has become unserviceable; forcing me to confirm my inevitable folly..

Likewise the sprockets remain unfitted as the less-worn KMC chain continues to play nicely with the originals, unlike the original SRAM chain now retired with just under 0.5% wear around 2200 miles covered.


The single remaining KMC chain has had a hammering thanks to the consistantly wet weather and was waxed for the third time in as many weeks today; along with its new counterpart after it had been trimmed to length and degreased in a jar of paraffin.

I took the liberty of hanging the two side by side (pre-trim & wax) since the earlier chain's really had a hard week so should give a good indication of elongation without remaining wax skewing the outcome..

View attachment 762471


The wear was more than I'd expected; measuring (from the photo) at anything between 0.38 and 0.40% depending on whether I compared the two at the rollers or plate ends.

I also measured it against a tape which suggested in the region of 0.27% wear - vindicating all those who've told me this is a crap method due to the chain not being tensioned. Unfortunately it seems that measuring the hanging chain with the tape is next to impossible..

Old and new side by side; the fomer probably looking a bit grottier than it is thanks to the residual wax..

View attachment 762472


Post-wax, showing the very obvious difference in colour:

View attachment 762473


The pin on one of the earlier chain's quick links (pre-wax) showing wear and corrosion on the faces that contact the inner plates:

View attachment 762474


So... on paper it looks like I'll get maybe 400 miles more out of the earlier KMC chain until it reaches 0.5% wear; although since the SRAM didn't quite reach this point before it started skipping on the 13T sprocket I presume this will also be the factor that determines the life of the KMC.

At least when the KMC starts skipping this will give a definitive point to compare its lifespan to that of the SRAM. Contrary to previous expectations I suspect that the KMC will end up representing worse value than the cheaper OEM-fitment SRAM item, which is irritating considering I've just bought another

The greater-than-expected wear of the earlier KMC is especially annoying as I'd planned to run the new one until a similar mileage on its own then start rotating them; however given how worn the earlier one is I suspect it might just have been better to have run this in isolation until death then started with a fresh pair of chains - perhaps taking the opportunity to re-space the sprockets and try 11sp items instead..

Alternatively I might have tried a vanilla KMC X8 - according to the manufacturer these aren't as wear-resistant as the E8, however they can be picked up for about half the price of the E8s and I suspect would last more than half as long.

Anyway, on to some more crushingly boring observations...

I noticed that the E8 doesn't come with a "reusable" quick link; which is irritating - although neither did the old one and that's been on and off many, many times without any obvious issues.

I do have some reuseable links bought as spares however, so figured it was sensible to swap them so that the reuseable item was in constant use and the single-use job in the bag for for emergencies. I've never really known what the difference is between these two types of links, so took a few comparisons shots..

The CL573 on the left is the "single use" item, the CL573R on the right billed as reuseable.

View attachment 762479

View attachment 762480
The big difference appears to be the hole shape and the little punched tab inboard of it on the non-R version.. from a geometry perpective I see no reason why one of these should be more difficult / expensive to make than the other - although perhaps it goes deeper than that with differing materials, heat treatment etc..

Meh.

I've not read the rest of the thread yet, so this may be answered and/or addressed.



Is there not an argument that goes: "You're experiencing excessive wear on the KMC chain because the sprockets are already worn."

The chain is being 'stretched' by the worn sprockets more quickly than it would be if you'd gone with new chain and sprockets together.

 

[wafter]

I've not read the rest of the thread yet, so this may be answered and/or addressed.



Is there not an argument that goes: "You're experiencing excessive wear on the KMC chain because the sprockets are already worn."

The chain is being 'stretched' by the worn sprockets more quickly than it would be if you'd gone with new chain and sprockets together.

No, because the (first) KMC chain was run at the same time as the original SRAM PC10. Both were run in rotation pretty much from when the bike was new, changing from one to the other when the fitted chain needed re-waxing. As such both should have experienced similar environmental conditions, interacting with drivetrain components at similar levels of wear.

Other than the ingenious testing method I've seen elsewhere of joining one half of two different chains together and running the resultant hybrid chain constantly, I can't think of a fairer way of assessing wear tbh.