20mph - latest thoughts?

[classic33]

There are plenty more examples of similar incidents to that in the Hospital Episode Statistics than of people cycling at speed into children, plus you've constrained the variables far more. Why argue that a speed limit on cycling should only happen once we've put a speed limit on the more reliably injurious hammers?

Not arguing for a hammer speed limit, never been overtaken by one, just giving you a simple test to try that you can then repeat on the other foot.

 

[Tin Pot]

I really hate 20mph zones.

They need to up speed limits to 130mph on motorways for modern vehicles that are capable.

That would make it an acceptable trade off.

 

[Drago]

Its reckoned that if everyone in America abided by then speed limit, fuel usage would drop sufficiently that they would no longer need to import oil for road fuel purposes. Think I read that on MMM.

 

[smutchin]

This is a direct consequence of building cyclist facilities

No it isn't. Don't be silly.

 

[Dogtrousers]

OK, I'll join in. Isn't this just utterly pointless?

Given that most 20 limits are not on long smooth downhills with good visibility, the percentage of cyclists actually capable of regularly breaking a 20 limit, without making a special effort, is very small.

For 30 limits I'd guess it's a tiny bit more likely as there are a few villages on long downhill sections where simply not braking is enough. But it's still a relatively trivial edge case.

Personally I think we should avoid breaking the speed limit, just out of politeness. But that's just my idiotic opinion based on nothing whatsoever. I don't expect others to share it.

 

[smutchin]

You don't get told to get on the cycle path where there isn't one.

I have been told exactly that on several occasions. Or been told to get on the footpath.

 

[mjr]

I have been told exactly that on several occasions. Or been told to get on the footpath.

Me too. Motorists don't pay attention to whether a cycle track exists in a specific place or not before hurling abuse - cycle tracks exist and have done for 80+ years, so they know they exist in general. As some of you may know, I also comment on development plans - many of those also seem to think there are cycle tracks where there aren't any and they really ought to know... if they don't, what chance is there that Jack and Jill driving along the road will?

 

[classic33]

What's the maximum speed acceptable on a cycle track?

 

[mjr]

What's the maximum speed acceptable on a cycle track?

It depends on the cycle track. The mainstream guidance says "8.2.2 - A design speed of 20 mph is preferred for offroad routes intended predominantly for utility cycling. This provides a margin of safety for most cyclists. [...] Routes with design speeds significantly below 20 mph are unlikely to be attractive to regular commuter cyclists, and it may be necessary to ensure there is an alternative oncarriageway route for this user category."

The latest HEe-hee guidance (mainly for A roads, IAN 195/16) says (Table 2.2.3) "On down gradients of 3% or greater - Design speed 40kph; All other off-carriageway cycle route provision - Design Speed 30 kph, Absolute Minimum Design Speed 20kph [...] The Absolute Minimum design speed shown in Table 2.2.3 is only permitted in the circumstances described in Section 1.3 and for distances up to 100 metres if combined with the use of ‘SLOW’ markings, although this is not permitted on downhill gradients of 3% or greater."

Of course, much of what's been built in the dark days fails to comply with the guidance and it may be considered careless, reckless or wanton to ride that fast on some of it.

 

[smutchin]

I have been told exactly that on several occasions. Or been told to get on the footpath.

I should add that I've also on many occasions ridden on the road alongside a cycle path and had absolutely no comment whatsoever from motorists.

 

[classic33]

It depends on the cycle track. The mainstream guidance says "8.2.2 - A design speed of 20 mph is preferred for offroad routes intended predominantly for utility cycling. This provides a margin of safety for most cyclists. [...] Routes with design speeds significantly below 20 mph are unlikely to be attractive to regular commuter cyclists, and it may be necessary to ensure there is an alternative oncarriageway route for this user category."

The latest HEe-hee guidance (mainly for A roads, IAN 195/16) says (Table 2.2.3) "On down gradients of 3% or greater - Design speed 40kph; All other off-carriageway cycle route provision - Design Speed 30 kph, Absolute Minimum Design Speed 20kph [...] The Absolute Minimum design speed shown in Table 2.2.3 is only permitted in the circumstances described in Section 1.3 and for distances up to 100 metres if combined with the use of ‘SLOW’ markings, although this is not permitted on downhill gradients of 3% or greater."

Of course, much of what's been built in the dark days fails to comply with the guidance and it may be considered careless, reckless or wanton to ride that fast on some of it.

But what's considered an acceptable speed is missing. Design limits only.

There's a few roads, locally, built to take traffic in excess of 100 mph, design wise. And they're not motorways.

Maybe it's time for speed limits on them.

 

[mjr]

But what's considered an acceptable speed is missing.

You seem to have missed the very first sentence: "It depends...". It's no more possible to say 25mph is acceptable on all cycle tracks than it is to say 50mph is acceptable on all A roads. Some of our borough's cycle tracks were designed for 60+mph because they're former A roads and haven't been degraded much by a lack of maintenance since conversion because they no longer carry much heavy traffic. It would be pretty much fine to go as fast as for what you can see is clear on them, up to the limits of your bike.

 

[Drago]

Its a 20 limit. Break that in a motor vehicle and you can have your car crushed in front of you.

Fly through like an idiot on a bicycle and you can get a cricket bat in the teeth for furious cycling.

Now, let's all go home.

 

[classic33]

Its a 20 limit. Break that in a motor vehicle and you can have your car crushed in front of you.

Fly through like an idiot on a bicycle and you can get a cricket bat in the teeth for furious cycling.

Now, let's all go home.

And get banned from driving at the same time.

 

[Tail End Charlie]

My sister lives at number 20. The council have put up a huge sign outside her house displaying her number, which is kind of them.