6 speed Brompton

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
Older 6 speed Bromptons didn't have the BWR hub, so the sequence of going up the gears may be different.
Not really - a half step shifting is a half step shifting, the principle does not change when using a different hub. With the SRAM hub based 6-speed the total spread was "just" 214% (while the SRAM 3 speed had 185%, the S/A 3 speed has 179%, the 5-speed Sprinter had 225% and today's BWR has 302% and todays S/A SRF5w has 256%). However, due to that fact the gear steps with the SRAM-6-speed were therefore much smaller than with the BWR which is an adavantage. To cure the small spread you could (and some people did) use a Schlumpf Speed drive or Mountain drive and this is where the fun starts: 12 gears and 3 shifters to deal with them. :whistle:
 

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
it appears there is more crap written about Bromptons than any other bike.

indeed :whistle:

The B 6 speed is simply a 3 speed with less spaces between gears and possibly a slightly wider range.
That was true for the older SRAM-based version. Today's six speed is using a different 3-speed hub (BSR on the 3-speed, BWR as base of the six-speed) where the spread is massively bigger (so way more spread between the gears in the hub and combined the the derailleur part gear steps of still massive 24-27% instead of the 33% of the three-speed BSR) and thus the range is massively wider (and in the area of a Shimano 8-speed hub - the BWR has 302% a 8-speed Nexus/Alfine has 306%).
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
indeed :whistle:


That was true for the older SRAM-based version. Today's six speed is using a different 3-speed hub (BSR on the 3-speed, BWR as base of the six-speed) where the spread is massively bigger (so way more spread between the gears in the hub and combined the the derailleur part gear steps of still massive 24-27% instead of the 33% of the three-speed BSR) and thus the range is massively wider (and in the area of a Shimano 8-speed hub - the BWR has 302% a 8-speed Nexus/Alfine has 306%).
Point taken!
But with any bicycle you take gearing range and the spacing in between into account when choosing for your needs and a B is no different in that regard.
I’ve seen posts where people want a B for flat urban commute and people are pursuading that a 6 speed is the only solution ‘just in case you’ what? Unexpectedly meet an Alp in Dusseldorf?

The 3 speed is effectively 3rd, 4th, 5th of the 6 speed in inches, BUT, you get 2 lower gears and one higher, a small weight and complexity issue (and some cost) for a more useable gear range - if required....
 
Last edited:

berlinonaut

Veteran
Location
Berlin Germany
I’ve seen posts where people want a B for flat urban commute and people are pursuading that a 6 speed is the only solution ‘just in case you’ what?
True. My personal favorite is and has been for years the two speed as it is lighter than the others, offers sufficient choice in the flatlands (and surprisingly far beyond) and makes the Brompton a really nippy bike. The three speed (which many seem to prefer) does not offer relevantly more range but it is heavier and due to the nature of hub gears you do suffer from some amount of drag that you don't with the two speed. I don't like it personally - get's better with a slightly bigger sprocket but still not my favorite. Plus the six speed offers way more and is not that more expensive while upgrading from a three speed to a six speed is massively expensive since you need a new rear wheel with the BWR. This explains to a degree the "just in case"-recommendations (that were not necessary with the old, SRAM based six-speed as three- and six-speed were using the same hub and upgrading was cheap and easy).

I think I have ridden or owned most possible gear choices for the Brompton including my 9-speed BWR setup, the Nexus 8, the S/A XRF8w and the Rohloff. In the end it is a matter of taste and needs:
• The Rohloff Brompton is the ultimate weapon to tackle every hill, but literally for a price and on top of that weight and a bit of drag. Overdone for ordinary every day usage in most cases in my eyes - like a Land Rover in the city.
• The six speed BWR is a clever design - much range with little weight, still the two shifters are a bit clumsy to use and the gear steps are massive (thus my mod to 9-speed: gear steps much better, range slightly enhanced, still two shifter-clumsiness).
• The opposite is the six speed SRAM: small gear steps but massively lacking range.
• The 8-speed Nexus is in my eyes a good choice for a universal bike: good (but not very good) range, comfortable to use, affordable enough, but with a weight penalty of about 1kg over the six speed and the need to spread the rear frame.
• Same goes for the S/A XRF 8w which on top has the advantage of no need to spread the rear frame. Unfortunately it is a bit of a dog to adjust (and needs adjustment more often than desirable) and, having the direct gear in first, it feels more draggy in higher gears than the Nexus, so of the two I today I would prefer the Nexus 8.
• The seven speed Nexus is outdated and overruled by the eight speed - today makes no sense anymore.
• I do like the S/A Sprinter 5-speed surprisingly well - limited range, a bit fragile, unergonomic shifter but the gear setup is pretty fine for the Brompton (with a smaller chainwheel than 50t stock). But gone for 20 years now.

What's missing from my rides until now is the newer S/A SRF5w (lying around here for years already but not yet managed to build it into a wheel :whistle:) and the various Schlumpf drives (Speed drive, Mountain drive, High speed drive) - however, I am not that keen on them due to cost, weight and complexity plus I simply don't have the need. And very exotic mods like a plain classic derailleur setup or a mod to the now vanished Dual-Drive.

So the choice is surprisingly huge (and even bigger when you take the various options for sprockets and chain-wheel-sizes into account) and everyones mileage varies, depending from his or her needs and taste. A good thing if you ask me.
 
Last edited:

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
True. My personal favorite is and has been for years the two speed as it is lighter than the others, offers sufficient choice in the flatlands (and surprisingly far beyond) and makes the Brompton a really nippy bike. The three speed (which many seem to prefer) does not offer relevantly more range but it is heavier and due to the nature of hub gears you do suffer from some amount of drag that you don't with the two speed. I don't like it personally - get's better with a slightly bigger sprocket but still not my favorite. Plus the six speed offers way more and is not that more expensive while upgrading from a three speed to a six speed is massively expensive since you need a new rear wheel with the BWR. This explains to a degree the "just in case"-recommendations (that were not necessary with the old, SRAM based six-speed as three- and six-speed were using the same hub and upgrading was cheap and easy).

I think I have ridden or owned most possible gear choices for the Brompton including my 9-speed BWR setup, the Nexus 8, the S/A XRF8w and the Rohloff. In the end it is a matter of taste and needs:
• The Rohloff Brompton is the ultimate weapon to tackle every hill, but literally for a price and on top of that weight and a bit of drag. Overdone for ordinary every day usage in most cases in my eyes - like a Land Rover in the city.
• The six speed BWR is a clever design - much range with little weight, still the two shifters are a bit clumsy to use and the gear steps are massive (thus my mod to 9-speed: gear steps much better, range slightly enhanced, still two shifter-clumsiness).
• The opposite is the six speed SRAM: small gear steps but massively lacking range.
• The 8-speed Nexus is in my eyes a good choice for a universal bike: good (but not very good) range, comfortable to use, affordable enough, but with a weight penalty of about 1kg over the six speed and the need to spread the rear frame.
• Same goes for the S/A XRF 8w which on top has the advantage of no need to spread the rear frame. Unfortunately it is a bit of a dog to adjust (and needs adjustment more often than desirable) and, having the direct gear in first, it feels more draggy in higher gears than the Nexus, so of the two I today I would prefer the Nexus 8.
• The seven speed Nexus is outdated and overruled by the eight speed - today makes no sense anymore.
• I do like the S/A Sprinter 5-speed surprisingly well - limited range, a bit fragile, unergonomic shifter but the gear setup is pretty fine for the Brompton (with a smaller chainwheel than 50t stock). But gone for 20 years now.

What's missing from my rides until now is the newer S/A SRF5w (lying around here for years already but not yet managed to build it into a wheel :whistle:) and the various Schlumpf drives (Speed drive, Mountain drive, High speed drive) - however, I am not that keen on them due to cost, weight and complexity plus I simply don't have the need. And very exotic mods like a plain classic derailleur setup or a mod to the now vanished Dual-Drive.

So the choice is surprisingly huge (and even bigger when you take the various options for sprockets and chain-wheel-sizes into account) and everyones mileage varies, depending from his or her needs and taste. A good thing if you ask me.
I'm with you on the standard range, either the 2 or the 6. The 3 speed is almost the worst of both worlds, notable extra weight and drag for little benefit... The range on the 6 is good.
Looking forward to the S2E arrival in June :-)
 
Last edited:

T4tomo

Guru
I'm with you on the standard range, either the 2 or the 6. The 3 speed is almost the worst of both worlds, notable extra weight and drag for little benefit... The range on the 6 is good.
Looking forward to the S2E arrival in June :-)
I have a 3 spd:laugh:. In my defence I bought it for a flat commute, 2 speed wasn't invented in 2005, and 6spd had some murmurings about issues with the rear change, so as 3 was all I needed, that's what I got. It got its 50T changed for a 44T mentioned up thread (did that change it from having ~ 2,4,6 to ~1,3,5 on an equiv 6 spd ?) and still does a good job when required, although no longer commuting into London so it doesn't get much use, but handy to keep in the fleet.
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Had to pick-up some frozen chicken patties on the way to work this morning....
Eventually turned box on its side to avoid heel strike. We got there!
586085

586086


586087
 

12boy

Guru
Location
Casper WY USA
Chainpusher 2 or 3 speed hub, 2 chainrings with a greasy finger shift, still much lighter than a 3 SA hub and cheaper too.
 

mitchibob

Über Member
Location
Treorchy, Wales
I can say that so far, everything up to 9/10 on the Simon Warren climb scale for Top100 UK climbs is doable with 6-speed and 50T chainring... 8/10 and less, 54T is doable (although, the longer ones, the smaller chainrings are better). The only 10/10 I've done, 44T necessary, and foot still went down!

Swains Lane, 2-speed is the fastest!
 

rogerzilla

Legendary Member
I've decided to run a 52T on my recently-acquired S6L. This gives the optimum cruising gear (for me) in direct drive and the 15T sprocket. I wanted to minimise use of the 13T or the high/low hub gears for best efficiency. It does mean bottom gear is only about 40", but that's as good as 39 x 25 on a road racing bike.
 
Top Bottom