6k electric car scrappage scheme

[Cavalol]

It's great for the dealers, as soon as the 3 years is up. They probably can't afford the balloon payment as you suggest @Bazzer , and on top of that I hear some pull the old 'First MOT is coming up, probably going to want brakes/tyres/servicing etc' trick, then show them the latest model they can, and so it continues. Horses for courses and there's always depreciation, but to me PCP is just renting a car for however long you sign up for.

 

[Drago]

Worse than renting a car, you have to pay for maintenance, tyres, brakes and MOT on a car that some one else owns.

 

[Bazzer]

Worse than renting a car, you have to pay for maintenance, tyres, brakes and MOT on a car that some one else owns.

And, from what I have been told, it isn't necessarily a level playing field when you want to hand it back. A friend's sister received a car allowance and leased Mercs for a couple of terms. At the end of her lease the dealer was happy to accept the leased car as it was for a new Merc, but when she said she was switching to a BMW, (because it was cheaper) suddenly all sorts of "issues" emerged.
I get dealers are keen to keep business and more favourable terms are likely to be offered in certain circumstances, but this smacked of some of the bad practices engaged in by car dealers in the past and of a disregard to an individual's finances.

 

[gzoom]

I see you are a group of happy go little car fans on here

I've been driving EVs since 2015, done about 65k in various EVs now, including road trips to France, Scotland.

My first EV was a Nissan Leaf, it was a PCP rental as Nissan gave so much discount to shift them, £200/month with no deposit.

I kept it for just under 2 years, it was my toe in the water EV trial, incase I didn't like living EVs it allowed me to go back to combustion cars without too much financial commitment.....

.....since than the Leaf has been replaced by this, 6 seater Tesla Model X, my absolute pride and joy, after my family it really is the love of my life. It was a cash purchase, and by far the most expensive car we have owned. We took delivery in early 2017 and haven't looked back. Frankly the car still amazes me to this day, it may be expensive, but to me a former die hard petrol head it's worth every penny.

.

When the rumours appeared about the £6k EV grant I got quite excited, we are fully ready to go totally EV on the driveway but EVs are still so expensive having two of them I couldn't justify. But if the government was to give £6k part exchange for the 11 year old Mazda we have sitting idle at present we would have happily swapped it for a Model 3.

But sadly the rumours are just rumours and unlikely to happen. You guys are right, EVs are very expensive at the moment still, but if you can afford one you wouldn't regret getting one.

For me nice cars are my down fall, it's an addiction, they are a waste of money, but I cannot help it and to be honest don't want help to stop my obsession with cars .

If I didn't have the X right now I would probably be in a BMW M5 or Audi RS6, maybe dare I think it even a supercharged RR. But I've never owned a better car than our current Model X, its overall utility is simply astounding, and makes every thing else I have owned in past feel like they belong in museums. It's hard to think of a better family car alternative at any price point, and it makes me smile every single time I sit in the drivers seat.....which and they say 'some things are priceless'

 

[Profpointy]

Seems to me that these scrapage schemes are amongst the most anti-green ideas ever. By and large anyone buying a new car is reasonably well off, very well off in the case of a tesla. So you use tax money to gift well off people a bung to scrap a reasonably decent car. Poorer people can't afford new cars - unless if course they are sucked in by absurd credit arrangements - which they still can't really afford. The cars being scrapped tend to be reasonably decent since they are owned by better off people. Stinky old bangers will have been sold on already. Much of the harm and resource use of cars is in the initial build. An older car has already used an amount of natural resources to be built - so having done this it should be run as ling as possible (subject to annual MOT on polutiin and safety)
Furthermore it's not helping the economy since the money is going on imported items, rather than on local tradesmen who fix existing cars and keep them going

It's a subsidy on consumer driven waste !

 

[Profpointy]

I see you are a group of happy go little car fans on here

I've been driving EVs since 2015, done about 65k in various EVs now, including road trips to France, Scotland.

My first EV was a Nissan Leaf, it was a PCP rental as Nissan gave so much discount to shift them, £200/month with no deposit.

I kept it for just under 2 years, it was my toe in the water EV trial, incase I didn't like living EVs it allowed me to go back to combustion cars without too much financial commitment.....

View attachment 530269

.....since than the Leaf has been replaced by this, 6 seater Tesla Model X, my absolute pride and joy, after my family it really is the love of my life. It was a cash purchase, and by far the most expensive car we have owned. We took delivery in early 2017 and haven't looked back. Frankly the car still amazes me to this day, it may be expensive, but to me a former die hard petrol head it's worth every penny.

View attachment 530273

View attachment 530270

View attachment 530271 .

When the rumours appeared about the £6k EV grant I got quite excited, we are fully ready to go totally EV on the driveway but EVs are still so expensive having two of them I couldn't justify. But if the government was to give £6k part exchange for the 11 year old Mazda we have sitting idle at present we would have happily swapped it for a Model 3.

View attachment 530272

But sadly the rumours are just rumours and unlikely to happen. You guys are right, EVs are very expensive at the moment still, but if you can afford one you wouldn't regret getting one.

For me nice cars are my down fall, it's an addiction, they are a waste of money, but I cannot help it and to be honest don't want help to stop my obsession with cars .

If I didn't have the X right now I would probably be in a BMW M5 or Audi RS6, maybe dare I think it even a supercharged RR. But I've never owned a better car than our current Model X, its overall utility is simply astounding, and makes every thing else I have owned in past feel like they belong in museums. It's hard to think of a better family car alternative at any price point, and it makes me smile every single time I sit in the drivers seat.....which and they say 'some things are priceless'

"like" for the honesty in saying you like nice cars and choose to spend your money on them. Such a contrast from specious justification you hear so often

 

[Drago]

I see you are a group of happy go little car fans on here

I've been driving EVs since 2015, done about 65k in various EVs now, including road trips to France, Scotland.

My first EV was a Nissan Leaf, it was a PCP rental as Nissan gave so much discount to shift them, £200/month with no deposit.

I kept it for just under 2 years, it was my toe in the water EV trial, incase I didn't like living EVs it allowed me to go back to combustion cars without too much financial commitment.....

View attachment 530269

.....since than the Leaf has been replaced by this, 6 seater Tesla Model X, my absolute pride and joy, after my family it really is the love of my life. It was a cash purchase, and by far the most expensive car we have owned. We took delivery in early 2017 and haven't looked back. Frankly the car still amazes me to this day, it may be expensive, but to me a former die hard petrol head it's worth every penny.

View attachment 530273

View attachment 530270

View attachment 530271 .

When the rumours appeared about the £6k EV grant I got quite excited, we are fully ready to go totally EV on the driveway but EVs are still so expensive having two of them I couldn't justify. But if the government was to give £6k part exchange for the 11 year old Mazda we have sitting idle at present we would have happily swapped it for a Model 3.

View attachment 530272

But sadly the rumours are just rumours and unlikely to happen. You guys are right, EVs are very expensive at the moment still, but if you can afford one you wouldn't regret getting one.

For me nice cars are my down fall, it's an addiction, they are a waste of money, but I cannot help it and to be honest don't want help to stop my obsession with cars .

If I didn't have the X right now I would probably be in a BMW M5 or Audi RS6, maybe dare I think it even a supercharged RR. But I've never owned a better car than our current Model X, its overall utility is simply astounding, and makes every thing else I have owned in past feel like they belong in museums. It's hard to think of a better family car alternative at any price point, and it makes me smile every single time I sit in the drivers seat.....which and they say 'some things are priceless'

You like EV's, that's cool. Those Tesla's look awesome, although my neighbour has been less than impressed with the two model S's hes had. I could afford to pay cash and buy several or their top model but, as aforementioned, I'll be binning off cars when mine dies.

The direction at which the discussion has taken thus far is that raping the planet for rare earth metals, which is one is the most environmentally damaging industrial processes known to mankind, building them in Japan, China, America, then shipping them to the other side of the planet isn't really the answer to concerns over pollution.

We're opining that the answer is less cars on the road entirely, and the government shouldn't be spending taxpayers money to enable people to keep clogging up the roads needlessly.

If you like your Tesla - I rather like it! - then all power to you, but if people want to keep driving cars instead of taking the alternatives more seriously then they should be paying for it out of their own pocket - it's easy to say "it's worth every penny" when John Q. Taxpayer has paid some of those pennies.

I'm not sure about the white though - looks like a kitchen appliance. Do they do a nice Postman Pat red like mine?

Mine was worth every penny because it was free, whichnis the best price to pay for what was a 50 grand motor. BTW, I would suggest the XC90 is the best family car in the world - Clarkson says so

As for any strange feelings or urges to start smiling when I get behind the wheel, it's a bloody car for chrissake - it's about as exciting as the toaster or catching the bus. Speed limits, potholes, congestion, uninsured twunts in Corsas, what the hell is there to get any kind of special feeling about? Indeed, this idea that cars are somehow special or desirable simply perpetuates the situation as people clamour to buy them so they can enjoy a special feeling, instead of making objective decisions based solely on transport need.

And that's another problem. How many people buy a new car every 2 years just to show the neighbours how flash they are? Buying cars they can't afford with money they don't have to impress people they don't know. Its insanity. Aside from the economic madness it's absolutely ravaging the planet earth for no other reason that to keep that special feeling fresh and strong when they slip behind the wheel. Aside from being a bit sad, it's an incredibly selfish attitude to take towards society and the planet. Smiles when you slip behind the wheel be damned - its about time society grew up a bit if that is the basis upon which transport decision are made.

The other issue is that society needs to get their head round the idea that of the type of lithium required for batteries, there is nowhere near enough to replace every internal combustion car like for like with an electric one. We've been promised imminent breakthroughs in affordable mass market battery technology that uses more common elements, but nothing signifcant has appeared in over 2 decades. The government could subsidise electric cars 100% and it wont alter that fact. Society and the motor industry are heading for a fall, and society has already proven with the pandemic that it can adapt quickly when forced to do so. The more and longer that happens, the harder and harder it is going to be for the motor industry. Instead of pressuring the government for sales subsidies or scrappage schemes they should be looking to the future and adapting their own approach and business model. The motor industry is a dinosaur, and we all know what happened to them.

So we don't have a downer on electric cars. To some extent they will undeniably be the future. As you can see if you actually read the thread we have a downer on cars, period, and a definite downer on the government subsidising people to buy them and perpetuate the dreadful transport situation the UK finds itself in.

 

[Drago]

Ps, I've just read that back to myself. Apologies if I came down a bit hard, but I think you'd very much missed the point most of us were making - too many cars, too much congestion, too much pollution (which electric cars are also responsible for), and that is not helped by people who regard cars as a hobby, obsession or mobile posing pouch in place of making cold, hard transport choices.

The good news for you is that Tesla is the one manufacturer that seems to have cracked issues with battery degradation and longevity, so its liable to have a similar lifespan in age and mileage to a conventional vehicle. In so many ways that's good for both you, its next owner, the market and the planet.

 

[gzoom]

I actually did have a XC60 loaner for a while, but despite been very good overall a diesel engine just cannot compare to the EV drivetrain.

The utility of the X is crazy, carry a mattress and keep the child seat in - Done

Carry a kids bed without dismantling it - Done

Take out the entire family out(in laws included) whilst keeping everyone smiling J

If am been completely honest I don’t really care about the green credentials of EVs, but if I wasn’t driving the Tesla, I would be in a similarly priced petrol car/SUV that would struggle to do 20mpg. Instead our Tesla I can charge using solar PV panels we have on the house. With lock down causing our car usage to go down, and all the sun last months, we used less than 1kWh a day in May of grid electricity, that includes doing about 400 miles in the car. If you care about green stuff, that has to be better than running an equivalent car/SUV doing 20mpg.

Driving less is important though, which is why I’m now doing just as many miles a day commuting to work on the bike after nursery drop off than in the car getting to nursery.

 

[gzoom]

Ps, I've just read that back to myself. Apologies if I came down a bit hard, but I think you'd very much missed the point most of us were making - too many cars, too much congestion, too much pollution (which electric cars are also responsible for), and that is not helped by people who regard cars as a hobby, obsession or mobile posing pouch in place of making cold, hard transport choices.

Sadly you will not convince people like me to give up our cars as a hobby, never ever its just not going to happen, no chance, forget it. It doesn't matter what anyone says or even legislate, it'll be like asking a vegan to stop eating tofu!!

However I've completely given up on combustion cars now, its EVs only from this point forwards. It’s a shame the £6K EV grant doesn’t look like its going to appear, as price remains the biggest problem with EVs, and anything that the government can do to help people switch to EVs in my book is a good idea.

 

[RoadRider400]

A vast amount of the emissions come with building new cars. Perhaps people should be encouraged to keep vehicles running as long as possible. I believe vehicle tax should be calculated as a function of both a cars emissions and age. So that more polluting new vehicles pay most and old low emission cars pay least.

 

[gzoom]

A vast amount of the emissions come with building new cars. Perhaps people should be encouraged to keep vehicles running as long as possible. I believe vehicle tax should be calculated as a function of both a cars emissions and age. So that more polluting new vehicles pay most and old low emission cars pay least.

People buying new cars already pay for it through massive deprecation of a new car versus old, our 2009 Mazda worth about £500 will get us from A to B just as well as our Tesla costing x100+ more. VED also does this a degree, a brand new combustion car can attract over £1K+ in first year VED.

If you accept people will buy new cars (and they will even now post COVID), an EV is a much better choice in every way than a combustion car. Which is things like a £6K EV grant should be encouraged. Ultimately don't forget if no one buys brand new cars, where would used cars come from?

 

[Drago]

Sadly you will not convince people like me to give up our cars as a hobby, never ever its just not going to happen, no chance, forget it. It doesn't matter what anyone says or even legislate, it'll be like asking a vegan to stop eating tofu!!

However I've completely given up on combustion cars now, its EVs only from this point forwards. It’s a shame the £6K EV grant doesn’t look like its going to appear, as price remains the biggest problem with EVs, and anything that the government can do to help people switch to EVs in my book is a good idea.

I'm not trying to get anyone to give anything up. I simply dont think the government should be subsidising it. leaving aside the moral issue of walkers and cyclists who pay tax subsidising car drivers, loom what happened the last time our government tried to interfere on a large scale with the new car market by creating a favourable taxation regime for diseasels. Oops!

And cars as a "hobby" is a slowly dying phenomenon. Environmental and social pressure is slowly getting people to give it up. The petrolhead scene is a pale imitation of what it was in the 00's. As time goes by it is slowly becoming a little frowned upon to be a petrolhead (or electric head?) and that will only accelerate. Personally I could never fathom it anyway - you cant go faster than the speed limit, and a lot of the time in urban areas and traffic that is unattainable anyway. What is there to get turned on about? Do you get excited over the toaster or lawnmowe? Of course you don't, so why get all moist over another domestic tool? I try to spend as little time as possible in mine because driving today is a hateful chore, not something to relish.

As an aside, cant you get the bike in the car? I thought it was the best family car in the world? I can get the family, the dog and the bike with wheels attached into my old tank.

But worstt is ridiculous to suggest an EV is automatically a better choice than a conventional car. Dont get me wrong, I've no downer on EVs at all, were I ever likely to buy another car it would probably be a Tesla (my driving days are done when this one dies, so that won't happen) but that statement is simply indefensible..

Their manufacture, use and disposal still pollutes, and even in the most optimistic scenarios that is still not significantly better than the best ICE cars. Indeed, over half or particulate emissions come from tyres and brakes...

The mere act of shipping them half way around the planet is polluting and destructive...

The extraction of the rare earth metals is one of the most destructive and polluting industrial processes know to man. My first degree was in planetary studies, and I'm struggling to thing of an industrial process that is more damaging...

They still cause congestion...

They take up as much parking space as any other car...

Like it or not range is an issue. Mrs D's T8 can manage 700 miles, whether the heater and lights are on or not, and can be refilled instantly, yet for all the local motoring runs on electricity quite happily...

They kill, maim and endanger just as effectively as any other car...

They are bad for personal finances, just the same as any other car, as people take loans, finance and PCP to cover their cost. An economy top heavy with debt is not a resilient one at times of crisis, as the crash of the 00's and more recently C19 have proven...

The nature of the materials used in their manufacture and their sources actually increase reliance on foreign oil (where do you think all those plastics come from?), not reduces it.

They increase our reliance on foreign sources of strategic materials, copper, gold, lithium, gallium, indium ...

I have no issue at all with them - they will undoubtedly be a notable part of the motoring future, and won't go away. My issue is with specious claims that they solve all sorts of problems, when the only real benefit is lack of tailpipe emissions. Being generous they solve very little, and bring with them their own problems and deficiencies. We'd be interested in hearing what other problems you think they solve, or how they're in any way fundamentally "better" choice?

 

[gzoom]

I try to spend as little time as possible in mine because driving today is a hateful chore, not something to relish.

Well, maybe your next car should be a Tesla, apparently Elon Musk says my car will be able to do this soon!!!......I don't believe him but NASA also didn't believe he could land a 2 rocket booster engine from orbit at the same time, and now look whos paying him to send astronauts into space.

View: https://youtu.be/tlThdr3O5Qo


As for the next generation not loving cars, not if I can help it .

 

[gzoom]

As an aside, cant you get the bike in the car? I thought it was the best family car in the world?

Yes you can, but that involves getting mud/dirt into the cabin. I think I said I loved my family more than my car...….maybe that should be I love them equally

My wife says I take more pictures of the cars than her, who am I to argue!! Oh all Model X have a camera mode, as soon as the car sees someone pointing a camera at it, the doors open by themselves