6p off diesel and petrol for next 3 months.....

[ArDee]

it's not so much the cost of car fuel that's a problem; but, heating oil. We have oil central heating, no gas in area, when we moved in in Nov 2001 the first tank full cost us 11.4p/ltr, just filled up at the cheap time of year, summer, 54.3p/ltr. Last winter our neighbour had to pay 74.5p/ltr in February.
I'm sure my salary hasn't increased 376% since Nov 2001 or 554% at winter prices.

 

[Pauluk]

1. People who live a long way from work could move closer.
2. Haulage is a very small part of food prices, and can be minimised by buying more local and seasonal produce.

What a load of tosh and completely wrong.

1. Its not practical for a lot of people to move, travel will always be a part of many peoples working lives in our modern times/job market etc.

2. Buy seasonal produce. Do you not realise that this country is not self sufficient with regard to food. There is not enough locally available food let alone seasonal food to feed the people in the UK.

Haulage and transport is not just about food, its affects almost everything we buy and sell.

 

[marinyork]

I never see why people get so excited about all of this. Yes, there are likely to be pressures on food prices and a few other things (obviously), but oil prices have been high for quite a long time now. I think people's memories play tricks on them, seen a number of times people on this forum and many others people complaining about the price of petrol having been xp a litre less than it was now at a cherry picked time and claiming it is outrageous. Well not quite because usually when these claims are investigated the price of petrol has been the same as it is now for some sustained period of time before dropping down to the cherry picked point in time.

It seems very odd to me getting very angry about sudden micro changes in price at the pump that aren't unprecedented.

 

[User482]

What a load of tosh and completely wrong.

1. Its not practical for a lot of people to move, travel will always be a part of many peoples working lives in our modern times/job market etc.

2. Buy seasonal produce. Do you not realise that this country is not self sufficient with regard to food. There is not enough locally available food let alone seasonal food to feed the people in the UK.

Haulage and transport is not just about food, its affects almost everything we buy and sell.

1. No, people don't want to move. Completely understandable, but it is a choice.
2. Haulage is a small part of the purchase price of foods. You're fixating on trivialities.

In summary, you're getting all worked up over a tiny increase in cost, which is more than compensated by the increased fuel efficiency of modern cars. Of course, it's much easier to moan and whinge than to do anything about it.

 

[martint235]

As to the cost of transporting food and other goods, I never did get a satisfactory (or any iirc) answer to my question regarding this in a previous thread. I put forward a basic theory that there is a price point for fuel whereby it will raise enough from fuel duty to enable the Govt to give every family a tax cut large enough to pay for the increase in prices caused by the increase in transportation. This takes into account the fact that there will be fewer cars on the road but also the fact that hauliers can achieve economies of scale.

As to driving to work, the labour market should be able to cope with an increase in fuel. If people can't afford to travel to work then employers either have to pay more or employ more local people. With South East transport costs going the way they are, I believe you'll see this happen fairly soon. It's not people that will be priced out of the South East but companies as they will not be able to get enough employees.

 

[User482]

Erm

No, really. Information is hard to come by but typically less than 5% IIRC. There are other related costs such as travel to the shops by customers.

 

[Linford]

1. No, people don't want to move. Completely understandable, but it is a choice.
2. Haulage is a small part of the purchase price of foods. You're fixating on trivialities.

In summary, you're getting all worked up over a tiny increase in cost, which is more than compensated by the increased fuel efficiency of modern cars. Of course, it's much easier to moan and whinge than to do anything about it.

The cost of fuel puts up the cost to business's all over. Even internet based businesses are being hammered as the cost of shipping their goods are going through the roof, and that has to be passed on to the customer.

If you had an appreciation of how hard it is to earn an honest crust through commerce you wouldn't be so dismissive of these hikes - think of that when you next buy something on ebay/amazon/home shopping channel/ocado, etc when you are feeling smug about others having to buy fuel for their vehicles.

We all get shafted by fuel hikes, and all they are being used for is to service the spiralling debts of badly run public services...

 

[User482]

Bananas, Avacodos, New Zealand Lamb etc?

Again, IIRC, there was a study which showed that NZ lamb had a lower lifecycle impact than British lamb - the reason being that less processed feed is needed, which offsets the extra transport cost. So it's not simple!

 

[User482]

The cost of fuel puts up the cost to business's all over. Even internet based businesses are being hammered as the cost of shipping their goods are going through the roof, and that has to be passed on to the customer.

If you had an appreciation of how hard it is to earn an honest crust through commerce you wouldn't be so dismissive of these hikes - think of that when you next buy something on ebay/amazon/home shopping channel/ocado, etc when you are feeling smug about others having to buy fuel for their vehicles.

We all get shafted by fuel hikes, and all they are being used for is to service the spiralling debts of badly run public services...

Yes, I realise that facts don't sit comfortably with your world view.

 

[User482]

K. I thought "food miles" = spawn of the devil around these parts.

I must get myself the latest 2012 CC Manifesto sometime

As I said, it's complicated. Generally, it's better to eat locally and seasonally, but there are exceptions. For example, Spanish tomatoes might be grown outdoors or in unheated greenhouses. And to go back to the lamb - the stuff I buy is reared outdoors and slaughtered about 20 miles from where I live, then taken straight to the butcher. That's very different to the distribution you'd typically find for lamb in the supermarket.

 

[srw]

Bananas, Avacodos, New Zealand Lamb etc?

The fact that it's economical to import them - and that we important container-loads of cheap tat from China - demonstrates quite how cheap fuel is.

 

[User482]

Total carbon footprint is the new black eh

I'd love to eat more locally / seasonally, but unfortunately i lack the time, money and imagination. Solve all of those things for the human race and we can all be like you and Hugh.

The money thing is a myth - my local butcher and greengrocer are both cheaper than the supermarket, and the quality is better too. Time and imagination require some good cookbooks and some organisation. We tend to make things in bulk so there's always a home made meal in the freezer if we can't be bothered to cook.

 

[oldfatfool]

Petrol is a bargain when you think about it, and if it cost £a.aa to produce and sell I wouldn't have a problem, the problem is the amount of tax.

If the tax money raised went to fund better roads and infrastructure, hell even if it was spent entirely on making an acceptable and user friendly public transport system I wouldn't complain. If the money was all used in offsetting the alleged damage fossil fuels caused, or in the development of a cheap reliable and 'green' power solution, I would be happy.

But it doesn't does it, it is just a way of the govmt raising funds to pay itself and paper over the cracks it causes through overspending and bureaucracy.

Just like smoking if everyone stopped the country would be bankrupt, if everyone parked their car and jumped on public transport the country would not only be bankrupt it would cease to function. So it isn't a green tax, it isn't the govmt trying to curb car usage, it is just another easy way of robbing the population.

 

[srw]

If the tax money raised went to fund better roads and infrastructure, hell even if it was spent entirely on making an acceptable and user friendly public transport system I wouldn't complain. If the money was all used in offsetting the alleged damage fossil fuels caused, or in the development of a cheap reliable and 'green' power solution, I would be happy.

But it doesn't does it, it is just a way of the govmt raising funds to pay itself and paper over the cracks it causes through overspending and bureaucracy.

It does, and then some. On any reasonable measure of economic cost, the road infrastructure in this country is subsidised to the tune of three or four times the amount of tax that road transport actually raises.

(Have a search in CA&D if you don't believe me).

 

[Linford]

Scale and the frequency of use, particulary in "internet business" has meant that actual freight charges to the customer have actually reduced over the last few years. They've had to, in order to remain competetive.

This coupled with the sheer economies of scale of bought online goods these days, mean that modernised logistic companies, such as Yodel, FedEx, UPS etc can offer a much cheaper service than they used to.

Taking our own example (all of our business is "mail order") our minimum freight charge (anythging up to 10Kg) a few years ago was £10.50. These days its £6.50 for both of the reasons just mentioned. UK Mail before you ask.

However, when you talk about general haulage companies, the Eddie Stobarts of the world, there's no doubt their margins have felt the pinch. Whats the result of this? Well, theres still more freight on the roads than there is on the rail, by a massive percentage. So it cant be that bad. The good haulage companies have got sharper so are still making a profit. So it cant be that bad. The bad haulage companies have gone to the wall so cant charge a fortune for a sh*te service. So it cant be that bad.

Im struggling to see the downside here?

Nobody is going to be happy paying £6.50 (plus VAT) for an item which weighs 400 grams. It is all very well using UK mail as an example (I use APC overnight), and they are cheaper on larger lumps, but people who still need to post smaller lower value stuff really do feel it.
Not 100% certain how UK mail operates, but If User482 were to want to send something from Bristol to say 'Taunton' via APC, it would actually be routed via their hub in Birmingham first before being sent back down to a regional one (maybe Exeter)
For these big operators to work efficiently to give you your £6.50 consignment charge, they have to run massive fleets of 44 tonne lorries.
Road Haulage is actually massively subsidised by the private motorist in respect of VED. They really do all of the damage to the roads, but only pay lip service to it (£1900 PA IIRC). Buses are even worse as they only pay about £180 PA, but carry incredibly high axle loads.
We need them so we suck it up, but the reality is that a single pass by a 44 tonne lorry does more damage to the road surface than 40,000+ cars, and the majority of those 40,000 drivers are paying proportionately more for the privilege whether they see a direct benefit from a large carrier like UK Mail..