A blow for Rugby Union....

[Tripster]

Everyone’s perception of risk is different. What one sees as dangerous, another doesn’t. That’s the reason Peter Hickman races the Isle of Man at ridiculous speeds or someone free climbs hundreds of feet up a rock face without ropes. I played Rugby League from 7 until mid 30’s at a good level and coached by a few pro’s from Super League. I also played against ex pro’s and even then the speed, strength and reactions where light years away from mere mortals. The game is faster and the athletes fitter but I don’t think the contact is as aggressive to the head as years ago, “bring back the biff” is a good YouTube google to see the real extent of the Aussie aggression.
Kids are protected more now at grass roots but ultimately it’s their choice, and parents to play. You can always choose not to be involved.
As for Health & Safety at work...... Safety never sleeps except on a Saturday & Sunday. 6 months after working on a site I was emailed a letter telling me during an investigation it was concluded I and many others had been exposed to asbestos for 3 months. It’s ok though, a letter will be put on your file for future reference. When I asked for the full report and findings I was ignored by head of EHS for a further 3 months before been told it’s not relevant or needed.
Or maybe the near miss incident where someone nearly fell through loose scaffolding..... ah that’s coming down today and besides too many near misses will squidgy the figures and look like an unsafe site. Then it’s more paperwork and site visits....
Has someone used a chemical without checking an MSDS or left a flogger on the floor where someone could trip, well that’s a different story but anything major??? Waste of oxygen in my opinion

 

[Deleted member 26715]

That's why they need protecting from themselves.

Pretty sure that wasn't intended to be as condescending as it came across, just because you don't like something why should it be banned, if you follow the thought through we cyclists are doomed.

It's still is lax in places,.

I was in Smyths Toys on Sunday there was a young lady/girl (Sorry PC folk) that claimed one of these mobile set of steps, then as she couldn't reach the top shelf climbed onto the bars to get up higher

If it is, should we be playing it in school?

The school game is far different from the professional game

Which begs the question - who deems what is an 'acceptable' risk. Someone with good intentions, or the participants themselves?

That is the BIG question, at what point do the sport haters get control, but I like the F1 analogy, in the 1970's Jackie Stewart walked away as he was sick of losing his friends, since then he's worked to improve the sport, weekend before last Grosjean survived a crash with only burnt hands & foot, which even 3 years ago would not have been survivable, possibly even last year.

 

[Mr Celine]

Played for Olney, tried out for the Saints 3rds but joined the Army before that ran its course and when I left the green machine 4 years later I had lost interest. So I was playing at the very lowest rung of what would today be semi-pro.

I wasn't harmed, but I never suggested it could not cause harm. I am suggesting that we all played knowing full well the injury of risk or death, and chose to play nevertheless. That's what 'contact sport' means.



That's still a stone lighter than I was when I played. A kg of mass at X speed still carries the same energy today as it did 30 years ago - they have more KG moving, but then the opposing player has more KG to counter with, but its difficult to be sure of anything size wise as prior to the professional game records were not kept. As aforementioned, I was bigger then - and now - than the average Lions player is today, and I was far from being alone in that.

I see little evidence that they're running any faster - increased mass at that level is incompatible with speed and acceleration, too much intertia. That's why sprinters tend not to be built like Michael Clark-Duncan.

But the bottom line is we all knew it was dangerous. in a sense it's little more than a team-played martial art, and people would breaks bones, spines, end up wheelchair bound and occasionally die. Knowing this, we still chose to play. The current mob who are moaning also knew this, and were still happy to take the pay cheque for each pro game. Why should World rugby be responsible for someone else's freely made life choices?

Do you think he would get a game today?

 

[winjim]

Pretty sure that wasn't intended to be as condescending as it came across, just because you don't like something why should it be banned, if you follow the thought through we cyclists are doomed.

Didn't mean to be condescending, just pointing out that competitive sportspeople will take huge amounts of risk in order to win. If they didn't then they wouldn't be competitive. See also the threads on doping and other forms of cheating. They will bend and stretch the rules as much as they can possibly get away with in order to gain an advantage so it's up to the sport's regulators to develop and enforce rules which encourage fair play and reduce risk to an acceptable level.

 

[Tripster]

View attachment 562500

Do you think he would get a game today?

Well this guy did, and in an arguably tougher time and sport. For many years he ripped teams and bigger guys apart

 

[Rusty Nails]

Was this after you got close to a 4 minute mile ?

The older I get the better I was.

 

[Tripster]

Pretty sure that wasn't intended to be as condescending as it came across, just because you don't like something why should it be banned, if you follow the thought through we cyclists are doomed.

It probably was

 

[jowwy]

i find this claim a bit odd - as the one of the claimants retired from rugby due to a serious neck injury, only to overturn his retirement, cause he missed playing the game........surely he knew then, that this game has a serious impact on your life going forward

 

[Tripster]

Only 8 players bringing the case out of how many thousands of pro players.

 

[Dayvo]

I played rugby (union - soft southern Jessie) from the age of 13 until I was 35. I played mostly in the front row (not hooker) and was lucky never to sustain an injury worse than a dislocated little finger.

I stopped playing in 1995 just prior to when lifting in the line-out was allowed, which IMO was one of the reasons why strength and fitness levels had to be improved acoss the whole strata of the game from (amateur) international players to lower club level players and even school players. And that was 25 years ago.

Today, the size, coupled with speed and strength, added to the fact that modern tactics with the (literally) giants of the game holding on to the ball longer, has made the game almost an accident waiting to happen at any moment.

I’m not sure what can be done to prevent these kind of injuries and the repercussions later on in life. Maybe tackling ONLY between the knees and ribs, and only ONE tackler per ball carrier. These laws would need to be very strictly enforced with RED cards/suspensions being issued to prevent/curtail dangerous play.

 

[matticus]

There are a lot of posts here that don't seem to understand grey areas. Not sure I can be bothered to address any individually ...

 

[Tripster]

Further to protecting kids in contact sport, I have a question.
My son is 10, he does martial arts. He also does Krav Maga. Krav is not a martial art it’s a form of Israel military self defence.
Parts of it are changed, altered as the response to an attack is aggressive and designed to injure, so you can make an escape rather than become involved in a fight. He can defend against knife attacks, get out of head locks, block and counter to the throat or escape from the grip of someone holding his coat etc. During sessions they will spar with only a gumshield and gloves. No head guards. It’s controlled aggression but even so it results in a bloody nose or fat lip, often one will be in tears. What’s the reason ? Because in real life, in the street or playground they don’t have soft hats on and need to experience been hit in the face so ultimately they can stay focused and respond if ever the time comes. They are taking knocks to the head. I allow this, I see the reason, my son enjoys the sparring most and he is a gentle, soft natured child. Does this make me irresponsible or a bad parent who risks my sons future health ???

 

[Cycleops]

That's why they need protecting from themselves.

By the nanny state?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Pretty sure that wasn't intended to be as condescending as it came across, just because you don't like something why should it be banned, if you follow the thought through we cyclists are doomed.
I was in Smyths Toys on Sunday there was a young lady/girl (Sorry PC folk) that claimed one of these mobile set of steps, then as she couldn't reach the top shelf climbed onto the bars to get up higher
The school game is far different from the professional game
That is the BIG question, at what point do the sport haters get control, but I like the F1 analogy, in the 1970's Jackie Stewart walked away as he was sick of losing his friends, since then he's worked to improve the sport, weekend before last Grosjean survived a crash with only burnt hands & foot, which even 3 years ago would not have been survivable, possibly even last year.

Couple of points.
I'm not sure anyone here is advocating banning anything.
Professional RU has just turned a corner from possibly/slightly risky to a more certain or provable level of risk - that's a step-change that requires reconsideration.

The school game is following the professional game. My bosses 3 sons all play at their private school to a high standard, they have played since dots. They have definitely noticed injuries and the severity of those injuries increasing. The boys themselves are really strapping , fast powerful lads, with a lot of muscle-mass and power in still-developing bodies. They play a lot of games, not just during the winter 'Season' but Summer tours too. Early damage won't recover. Last night a relative young player was interviewed with dementia already. This could be the tip of a larger iceberg.

The Jackie Stewart documentary was the one I was referring to. It's a harrowing watch. F1 is taking its responsibilities seriously and maybe Rugby has reached Stewart's turning point.

I love watching Rugby, and will watch both codes, but sometimes the sheer physicality makes me wince....now it seems rightfully.

 

[Tripster]

There are a lot of posts here that don't seem to understand grey areas. Not sure I can be bothered to address any individually ...

Is that not the point of a discussion ? You may find you enlighten some and that you are too enlightened by others