A close call with 2 time trialists.

[derrick]

Sorry I forgot.... Drivers need to allow for supposedly experienced cyclists just in case they change lanes unexpectedly. If they are going to use A class dual carriageways for time trials, then the least they can do is carry out some basic self preservation tactics.

If you are a cyclist you would no there are idiots on bikes aswell as in cars. There fore you should know to allow plenty of space for all.

 

[T4tomo]

A warning sign - "cyclists moving into middle lane" or similar might have helped, risk mitigation.

 

[Brandane]

If you are a cyclist you would no there are idiots on bikes aswell as in cars. There fore you should know to allow plenty of space for all.

True, and I did, which is why I missed them. However, had I NOT been a cyclist, or less experienced driver?? How are the cyclists to know who they are sharing the road with? THEY have a responsibility to cycle safely. I don't want 2 squashed cyclists on my conscience for the rest of my days.

 

[Brandane]

Am i on the petrol heads forum?

Let's not turn this into an "us and them" thread. Most cyclists are also drivers, and we know there are responsibilities on both sides. On this occasion it was the cyclists who failed to uphold theirs. Badly!

 

[Electric_Andy]

I used to be in a similar situation as the cyclists, on a daily basis on my commute to work. Only it was a 30mph limit (and slightly uphill so I was doing about 10mph). It's tricky - if the lane to your right is not clear then you have to stop in the lane and wait for a gap. The lane you are now stopped in has vehicles wanting to squeeze past you at 30 (or in the OP's example, 60). After a few times of nearly losing my shoulder, I decided to pull in to the left verge of lane 1 and wait, then cross into lane 2 when clear. Sometimes took a while in rush hour, but there was always one driver who'd stop and let you cross (which I agree wouldn't happen on a 60mph road)

 

[derrick]

Let's not turn this into an "us and them" thread. Most cyclists are also drivers, and we know there are responsibilities on both sides. On this occasion it was the cyclists who failed to uphold theirs. Badly!

Will agree to differ on that one.

 

[Brandane]

Will agree to differ on that one.

That's fine, you weren't there and maybe I haven't described the event clearly enough for you.

 

[oldwheels]

I can sympathise tho’ not been in quite the same situation. Any driver using a dual carriageway on a Sunday morning is liable to encounter time triallists.
I know the road Brandane refers to and it is not nice at the best of times.
My experience with time trials was driving south from Aberdeen on a Sunday morning and while I had no problems my nerves were a bit on edge at every junction.
I was doing this journey regularly for a while and met them quite often.

 

[matticus]

It seems to be a stupid course running it on a dual carriage way with a major slip road off it, thus for a short time putting the competing cyclists in the middle of 3 lanes with cars potentially passing either side. That should fail most risk assessments .

I don't understand. Practically every TT run on a DC (and as you know, they are most of the popular courses!) will feature this lane layout.

 

[matticus]

All I can say is that I have been cycling for 55 years, and driving (cars and motorbikes) for 40 years (HGV's for 10 years) without ever having a point on my licence, and that was one of my scariest incidents ever.
I'm sure there is something in the highway code about signaling your intention to change lane. And in the absence of a mirror, to LOOK BEHIND you to check it's clear BEFORE carrying out the manoeuvre. Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. The most basic of the road rules....

Are you honestly saying that in 40 years of driving, this is the first time you've witnessed a hasty, ill-advised lane-change ?!? Are there actually any other drivers in your part of Scotland? :P

(i've done half your driving, and I know I've had someone blind-side me from the left on a motorway. Their insurer paid out.
Oddly I didn't go looking for their parent club - or their parents - to moan about it.)

 

[T4tomo]

I don't understand. Practically every TT run on a DC (and as you know, they are most of the popular courses!) will feature this lane layout.

Incorrect, most DC's don't feature that type of layout. most are simple 2 lane DCs

 

[matticus]

Incorrect, most DC's don't feature that type of layout. most are simple 2 lane DCs

Now I've fully read the OP, I see what I think you're saying. But I was answering this post:

Thomo: It seems to be a stupid course running it on a dual carriage way with a major slip road off it, thus for a short time putting the competing cyclists in the middle of 3 lanes with cars potentially passing either side

That describes an ordinary slip-road off a 2-lane Dual-Carriageway.

I've never done a TT-course RA (only read them). But there will be many factors - traffic-count being the most universal. No junction is inherently a no-go - it's down to the assesors and what mitigation is in place.
Given the lower traffic levels in Scotland - which I've experienced on that bit of coast - I can well imagine that being quite a safe junction at that day/time..
But I didn't do the RA, and I've never ridden that road, so 🤷‍♀️

 

[figbat]

It seems to me there are people responding to a situation that wasn't created. Talk of passing space and slip roads seems to suggest the OP attempted to pass the cyclists in their lane. My understanding is that the OP was established in lane 2 and the cyclists were established in lane 1. The cyclists then realised that to remain on the dual carriageway they had to move from lane 1 (which subsequently became the off-slip) to lane 2 (which continued in the direction they were heading). Thus the cyclists made a manoeuvre from lane 1 to lane 2 and did so, according to the report, without any indication nor observation and into the path of the OP.

Whilst we all owe a duty of care to other roads users we should also expect that duty to be reciprocated. Yes, give cyclists room (which OP was doing by switching lanes to pass them) and also try to anticipate the unexpected (as OP did by avoiding a collision) but also signal your manoeuvres and make appropriate observations before changing lane.

If a car had swerved from lane 1 to lane 2 without signalling this debate would vilify them for their careless and inconsiderate driving. Cyclists can't use their higher level of vulnerability as a trump card to do as they wish and expect others to leap out of the way. However it is noted that looking over one's shoulder impacts aerodynamics, as does sticking an arm out (which is also very uncool) - no doubt the prime factors in the cyclists' decision-making.

 

[Time Waster]

What is the length of the slip road? Did they need to pull out at that moment or could they have safely waited? I think the OP has already given that info by saying they had made the manoeuvre very early. It seems to me they did not have good awareness of the road and other users, the cyclists that is. A risky thing for a cyclist but it would be a motoring offence if a driver made that manoeuvre I suspect.

If the OP isn't going to contact the organisers about this then it is really only a learning experience for us on here. Basically cyclists should be aware of other users and signal intention. Drivers should assume a lycra clad cyclist with a number on them is potentially not going to make good decisions and take exceptional precautions in the circumstances. A driver will be the one surviving to have regrets, not necessarily true with the cyclist. The driver might not do anything wrong but conscience does not always work on reality! So the driver needs to look after themselves by not hitting cyclists at all costs no matter how good or bad the cyclist is riding.

 

[Brandane]

(i've done half your driving, and I know I've had someone blind-side me from the left on a motorway. Their insurer paid out.
Oddly I didn't go looking for their parent club - or their parents - to moan about it.)

The difference is, in most cases you can fix metal after cars have side swiped each other. Cyclists are not so easy to repair. I'm sure you know this though..
AND.... if a vehicle driver had done something so stupid, and they were identifiable (company logo or whatever) then I would be contacting them "to moan about it".