A tidy 1972 Holdsworth Tourer.
- Thread starter Paulus
- Start date
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biggs682
Touch it up and ride it
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Same seller had a few other nice bikes for sale and still has a couple of others listed
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
No bids yet with under 13 hours to go. the fact it has a reserve price is clearly putting off the punters. 99p starts are a great selling tool, but not when combined with a reserve which is obviously going to be high if you look at the BIN price. No point in starting somethng at 99p if the reserve is £150 or £200!
Buyers know there's no chance of grabbing an outrageous bargain so they won't bid at all.
Buyers know there's no chance of grabbing an outrageous bargain so they won't bid at all.
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
Listing finished at £56 and predictably failed to reach it's reserve. Has been relisted again with same 99p start, same BIN price, and a reserve on it. 
IanSmithCSE
Guru
- Location
- Worcester, Worcestershire
Good morning,
If I wanted it, the £300 BIN would encourage me to contact the seller and offer say £200 which would be a fairish price in my mind.
It seems to be in lovely condition but it is a 50 year old bike with an old tech drive train.
This offer is close to what the reserve might be and is not so low that it is offensive.
By having a reserve and a BIN the seller can set the BIN at a slightly higher price than he really expects to get, is sort of saying make me an offer at around that price but if the auction takes off he can let it run until it gets close the BIN at which point a bidder would chose that option
By starting at 99p rather than the reserve the seller can see what the market is willing to pay, especially after a few relists, if someone really wants it they will enter what they are willing to pay knowing that the reserve will be £300 or less.
So as the auction ended at around £56 it is clear to the seller that there is not an obvious demand at say £99, £149 or £199.
If the seller has the time, he can get a true market valuation and adjust his price accordingly or hang on for that one buyer who must have it.
Bye
Ian
If I wanted it, the £300 BIN would encourage me to contact the seller and offer say £200 which would be a fairish price in my mind.
It seems to be in lovely condition but it is a 50 year old bike with an old tech drive train.
This offer is close to what the reserve might be and is not so low that it is offensive.
By having a reserve and a BIN the seller can set the BIN at a slightly higher price than he really expects to get, is sort of saying make me an offer at around that price but if the auction takes off he can let it run until it gets close the BIN at which point a bidder would chose that option
By starting at 99p rather than the reserve the seller can see what the market is willing to pay, especially after a few relists, if someone really wants it they will enter what they are willing to pay knowing that the reserve will be £300 or less.
So as the auction ended at around £56 it is clear to the seller that there is not an obvious demand at say £99, £149 or £199.
If the seller has the time, he can get a true market valuation and adjust his price accordingly or hang on for that one buyer who must have it.
Bye
Ian
biggs682
Touch it up and ride it
- Location
- Northamptonshire
Another great and concise reply from @IanSmithCSE .
I totally agree someone out there would be prepared to pay £300 you just gotta wait for that person or except a lower figure.
I totally agree someone out there would be prepared to pay £300 you just gotta wait for that person or except a lower figure.
rogerzilla
Legendary Member
Some Holdsworths of that era are appallingly built, so it's a gamble. I bought a Mistral that was full of lead filling the dents - they obviously weren't ones to waste tubing - and had a steerer in so wonky that the effective fork offset was 25mm.
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
I get the sellers thinking, as explained above, but buyers tend to view things rather differently. The normal rationale behind listing a nice item at a very low start price is to generate maximum interest from bidders, that gets some momentum into the auction. If items are accurately and comprehensively listed with no reserve on a long duration auction, 7 or 10 days, the finishing bid really is the market price of the item. Punters have had plenty of time to find, watch, research, and form their own personal valuation opinion of the item. and decide what they are willing to pay.
Personally I don't like participating in low start reserve auctions. why should I waste my time having to do multiple small incremental bids in order to try and second guess the seller's bottom line? As far as I'm concerned the minimum price for anything the seller is willing to accept should be the start price, and no playing silly buggers with a low start price the seller won't honour because they've set a higher reserve.
The auction we're talking about is a case in point. The market decided the item is worth £56, after several days bidding. Well, like it or not that is the market price. I suspect the final price was actually depressed by the presence of a reserve, and would probably have exceeded the £100 mark if bidders knew their winning bid would be honoured regardless of what it was.
Sellers seem to want their cake and eat it. They want the upside of the auction format where a silly bid war may inflate the price, but they don't want to take a chance that the item doesn't generate much interest and finishes low.
Personally I don't like participating in low start reserve auctions. why should I waste my time having to do multiple small incremental bids in order to try and second guess the seller's bottom line? As far as I'm concerned the minimum price for anything the seller is willing to accept should be the start price, and no playing silly buggers with a low start price the seller won't honour because they've set a higher reserve.
The auction we're talking about is a case in point. The market decided the item is worth £56, after several days bidding. Well, like it or not that is the market price. I suspect the final price was actually depressed by the presence of a reserve, and would probably have exceeded the £100 mark if bidders knew their winning bid would be honoured regardless of what it was.
Sellers seem to want their cake and eat it. They want the upside of the auction format where a silly bid war may inflate the price, but they don't want to take a chance that the item doesn't generate much interest and finishes low.
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Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
I agree with the above to a point . I tend to start my auctions at near the price I want . I don't agree with the low starting point . You would look pretty damn silly if it went for 99p.
The bike looks to be in very good condition but I feel that the colour isn't very inspiring . I think orange and Kingfisher blue might have bumped up the price .
I think that the final bid price seems very low in my opinion . I look at the value of the main components when I bid. If I can get the bike for below the price those parts would fetch I'm happy . Perhaps that's why I'm not a businessman . Last year I bought a Holdsworth Avanti and a Raleigh Clubman , both filthy dirty around £55 each one . They both cleaned up well and are very good bikes .
The bike looks to be in very good condition but I feel that the colour isn't very inspiring . I think orange and Kingfisher blue might have bumped up the price .
I think that the final bid price seems very low in my opinion . I look at the value of the main components when I bid. If I can get the bike for below the price those parts would fetch I'm happy . Perhaps that's why I'm not a businessman . Last year I bought a Holdsworth Avanti and a Raleigh Clubman , both filthy dirty around £55 each one . They both cleaned up well and are very good bikes .
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
That's pretty well much the case for a lot of things on the 'bay, not just bicycles.
From a buyer's perspective, it's research, research, research, and then only bid or offer what you are willing to pay based on that. Looking at the sold listings is always a good idea, and in any case, there's always another day and another auction. That actually does help concentrate the mind and work out what you actually really want. But sometimes people don't realise what they've got, and so don't list it correctly, and then bargains can be had.
I'm lucky that I am something of an expert in the field where I *do* collect (motor racing memorabilia), and failing that, one of my best friends is in the trade and can give me an opinion or a valuation on things that I know less about. Likewise, I've done the same for him, including identifying and authenticating stuff he's not sure of.
It sure as hell helps to be a nerd.
The one thing that really bugs me, is people buying stuff and re-listing it at a much higher price, whereupon it then sits unsold for months on end, constantly being re-listed.
From a buyer's perspective, it's research, research, research, and then only bid or offer what you are willing to pay based on that. Looking at the sold listings is always a good idea, and in any case, there's always another day and another auction. That actually does help concentrate the mind and work out what you actually really want. But sometimes people don't realise what they've got, and so don't list it correctly, and then bargains can be had.
I'm lucky that I am something of an expert in the field where I *do* collect (motor racing memorabilia), and failing that, one of my best friends is in the trade and can give me an opinion or a valuation on things that I know less about. Likewise, I've done the same for him, including identifying and authenticating stuff he's not sure of.
It sure as hell helps to be a nerd.
The one thing that really bugs me, is people buying stuff and re-listing it at a much higher price, whereupon it then sits unsold for months on end, constantly being re-listed.
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
I agree, it did finish very low for what appears to be a nice bike. The reason it finished low I attribute fairly and squarely to the fact the seller placed a reserve on it. Doing that substantially cuts down your pool of potential buyers, those people like me who take the view that every bid should count and so refuse to play the "let's guess what the seller's reserve is" game.
Most non-reserved listings that I've watched that finished very low, did so because either the listing details or photos were poor, the item looked neglected, or the seller was in a location a long way from the bulk of the population so transport costs and hassle was a significant factor.
Minters don't normally go for a song unless badly listed or presented.
IanSmithCSE
Guru
- Location
- Worcester, Worcestershire
Good afternoon,
I noticed this a few weeks ago,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314001458241?hash=item491bf20441:g:~ugAAOSwz~NiTWQm
it started out with a low starting price and a Buy It Now of £250 and has been relisted at least once, now with a £140 BIN
It's not a 531 Team Replica, but if it genuinely is 531 tubes, forks and stays then it seems like an okay buy if you just want the paintwork. :-)
The reality of what this particular bike is worth in comparison to other classics is starting be apparent as it has not sold. This might have surprised the seller as genuine red/black Team Replicas command a decent price.
Being in Birmingham, it's not going to be the location that is the reason for the lack of demand.
Bye
Ian
I noticed this a few weeks ago,
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314001458241?hash=item491bf20441:g:~ugAAOSwz~NiTWQm
it started out with a low starting price and a Buy It Now of £250 and has been relisted at least once, now with a £140 BIN
It's not a 531 Team Replica, but if it genuinely is 531 tubes, forks and stays then it seems like an okay buy if you just want the paintwork. :-)
The reality of what this particular bike is worth in comparison to other classics is starting be apparent as it has not sold. This might have surprised the seller as genuine red/black Team Replicas command a decent price.
Being in Birmingham, it's not going to be the location that is the reason for the lack of demand.
Bye
Ian
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
To me it doesn't seem like a bad price if you were looking for a bike in that colour scheme . It does have adjusting screws in the rear dropouts so I wouldn't think it was a basic model , plus it has Campagnolo head set , so someone has spent some money on it .
SkipdiverJohn
Deplorable Brexiteer
- Location
- London
Are you suggesting that it's not actually a Raleigh frame at all?
Would you expect a Raleigh 531 bare frameset sold by a bike shop to be serial numbered in the same way as a complete factory-built bike, or were they treated differently?
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