A very silly boy!

[Dave 123]

Did you see any black / silver / grey cars along the way which you didn't feel obliged to comment upon?

A single solid colour is far more recognisable than the profusion of colours, often arranged as vertical stripes, that appear on many cyclists clothing. The world around us is arranged in near-vertical stripes and such decoration, even in otherwise bright colours, will act as great camouflage when out on the roads and trails. A single solid block of colour, though, even if it is black, will be instantly recognisable as a human from a long distance.

Norm, no I didn't. The OP was about a cyclist in black clothing that I wasn't obliged to comment on either.

 

[MontyVeda]

I see you don't want a reply. Nonetheless...

I was there. I saw it unfold. The motorcycle (approaching me head on) was to all intents and purposes invisible.

I am a former motorcycle courier and have had my share of incidents. I've flown over bonnets before and do not view this as a casual observer. The driver who pulled out was driving with caution. The Police attended. No action was taken against the driver of the car.

For insurance, the falt lay with the driver - quite rightly. In terms of prosecution, no action was taken. It was abundantly clear that in the prevailing light and conditions, the driver would not have seen the motorcyclist.

The point of the anecdote was that the rider was quite within the law and still got a very stiff neck and a long stay in hospital. Not one witness saw him approaching.

I was replying to a point from Adrian, suggesting that being within the law is not always enough.

Sorry but I don't see how you, as a bystander can be so sure that the driver, who pulled out in front of a motorbike and hospitalised the rider was driving with caution... he obviously wasn't driving with caution.

 

[Chris S]

You are comparing normal everyday activity with criminality. Was that your intention?

It's not crminal to leave your house unlocked, just silly. Are you saying that drivers who hit cyclists dressed from head to toe in black couldn't be guilty of careless driving?

 

[Nebulous]

It's not crminal to leave your house unlocked, just silly. Are you saying that drivers who hit cyclists dressed from head to toe in black couldn't be guilty of careless driving?

People often hark back to a golden era when keys were left in cars and house doors were left unlocked - guess what, it maybe that you still can! I see people who choose to do so as brave, liberated from fear, maybe even slightly eccentric - but not stupid.

I know a couple who haven't locked their house in 5 years. They even went to Australia for a month and left it unlocked. I struggled to get my head around this and questioned it. She said 'Well I don't even know where the key is, besides if my friends are in town I'd like them to be able to pop in for a cup of tea.'

 

[ianrauk]

I know a couple who haven't locked their house in 5 years. They even went to Australia for a month and left it unlocked. I struggled to get my head around this and questioned it. She said 'Well I don't even know where the key is, besides if my friends are in town I'd like them to be able to pop in for a cup of tea.'

My uncle never locks his house.
I think it's because of a couple of reasons
1: He lives in Wales
2: He's a bit dim really.

 

[dodgy]

I know a couple who haven't locked their house in 5 years. They even went to Australia for a month and left it unlocked. I struggled to get my head around this and questioned it. She said 'Well I don't even know where the key is, besides if my friends are in town I'd like them to be able to pop in for a cup of tea.'

Sure I've read that story regurgitated elsewhere, a few times actually.

 

[Nebulous]

Sure I've read that story regurgitated elsewhere, a few times actually.

Well it wasn't me - that's the first time I've posted it.

As I'm sure people have gathered it wasn't an urban environment - though it was town of about 2000 people.

When I first moved to Aberdeen I was a bit shocked to discover that people locked their houses during the day, whilst they were in them.

 

[snorri]

When I first moved to Aberdeen I was a bit shocked to discover that people locked their houses during the day, whilst they were in them.

Ah! but that would have been since the oil, big influx of southerners in Aberdeen now.

 

[steveindenmark]

Reading some of these comments it is not surprising that so many cyclists are killed on the roads.
I am a cyclists and a motorcyclists and the same arguement come from the motorcyclists "Why should we wear bright vis vests?"

My reply to them is the same to cyclists "Because it just may save your life".

The biggest excuse in motorbike and cycling accidents is "I didn`t see you". Take a hint guys.

Some people in both groups don`t think its manly to wear day glo yellow. But obviously think it is macho to lay under a truck bleeding until the lights go out. Some even think it enfringes our human rights. You may not be here long enough to worry about that.

As for whoever asked if we ever see cars decked in day glo yellow. They weigh about 2 ton, are as wide as...a car, actually, travel at 140mph and are often driven by lunatics. If you can`t see it you shouldn`t be riding a bike. because you are blind.

The sooner vis vests are brought in by law for bikes and motorbikes the sooner the death toll in both groups will go down.

Steve

 

[theclaud]

The biggest excuse in motorbike and cycling accidents is "I didn`t see you".

Excuse. You said it. They're lying, or they weren't looking.

 

[steveindenmark]

Not necessarily theclaud. There is a "second look" theory amongst pilots, where they say you can look and not see things the first time round.

I drive a car and have had trouble seeing bikes and motorbikes at junctions. I am an ex driving instructor and police advance driver and so am quuite experienced behind the wheel. Not seeing things is not uncommon for a lot of drivers or cyclists for that matter.

Steve

 

[Boris Bajic]

Excuse. You said it. They're lying, or they weren't looking.

Over several decades I've been whooped off various motorcycles and bicycles by vehicles whose drivers were unaware of my presence.

On more than one occasion I've seen the offending driver look in my direction. They simply failed to notice me. It happens.

I can't imagine why a driver who said "I didn't see you" would be lying.... unless hitting the rider was their intention...

 

[theclaud]

There's nothing very complex to get your head around, Gentlemen. Unless you are actually invisible, and most of us really are not, you will be seen by people who are looking at, and indeed for, you. If they aren't looking, they won't see you. Looking is an active thing - not something that simply happens when you point your head in a given direction. That's really all there is to it.

 

[Boris Bajic]

There's nothing very complex to get your head around, Gentlemen. Unless you are actually invisible, and most of us really are not, you will be seen by people who are looking at, and indeed for, you. If they aren't looking, they won't see you. Looking is an active thing - not something that simply happens when you point your head in a given direction. That's really all there is to it.

Tee Hee....

When I was younger I did work that involved seeing and identifying things that were hard to see. We were also taught how to make highly visible things jolly hard to see.

One thing that helped in this task was that there were a lot of people out there who thought as you do.

 

[Crackle]

Reading some of these comments it is not surprising that so many cyclists are killed on the roads.
I am a cyclists and a motorcyclists and the same arguement come from the motorcyclists "Why should we wear bright vis vests?"

My reply to them is the same to cyclists "Because it just may save your life".

The biggest excuse in motorbike and cycling accidents is "I didn`t see you". Take a hint guys.

Some people in both groups don`t think its manly to wear day glo yellow. But obviously think it is macho to lay under a truck bleeding until the lights go out. Some even think it enfringes our human rights. You may not be here long enough to worry about that.

As for whoever asked if we ever see cars decked in day glo yellow. They weigh about 2 ton, are as wide as...a car, actually, travel at 140mph and are often driven by lunatics. If you can`t see it you shouldn`t be riding a bike. because you are blind.

The sooner vis vests are brought in by law for bikes and motorbikes the sooner the death toll in both groups will go down.

Steve

Motorbikes are not the same as bicyles, so comparing them is not entirely relevant, each group has it's own distinct set of problems which you need to approach differently.

You're also looking at this the wrong way around. The best safety campaigns for motorcyclists were 'Think Bike' not, dress up like an actor out of Tron.

The reason you aren't seen is because people aren't actively looking. If people driving cars are going to pull out in front of trucks and cars (I've seen both happen) as well as bicycles then dressing everyone in HiViz is going to have little effect, especially if everyone is wearing it.

On the question of choice, then it's not just a black and white, if you are seen you are safe, again you create a certain risk compensation in peoples thinking: I am bright, I can be seen, I am safe: none of which is necessarily true. We all use a variety of skills to stay safe, over emphasis of one is detrimental to the others. If you told everyone to assume that they haven't been seen, I'm sure this would have a greater effect than to dress them in HiViz and let them assume they have. Accident survival and accident prevention are two different things.