A21, opposite bellingham police station, lady rider...pink helmet, hi viz jacket, white bike.

[martint235]

It's interesting that you can still see the fingerprints of pre war road planners. If you follow Whitefoot La over a non-existent railway bridge it meets up with Jevington Way and Mottingham lane, both very wide roads obviously intended for greater things which head towards the current A20/S Circular roundabout.

Am I being thick here? Whitefoot Lane is a fair way of Jevington Way. Whitefoot Lane ends at a Mosque at the top of Hither Green Cemetery (where I turn onto and off it as part of my commute)

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Am I being thick here? Whitefoot Lane is a fair way of Jevington Way. Whitefoot Lane ends at a Mosque at the top of Hither Green Cemetery (where I turn onto and off it as part of my commute)

Would that have stopped road planners in the 30s though?

 

[martint235]

Would that have stopped road planners in the 30s though?

Ah now I understand! See that's why it's always worth me clearing up whether I'm being thick or not. Cos often the answer is yes.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Ah now I understand! See that's why it's always worth me clearing up whether I'm being thick or not. Cos often the answer is yes.

Jevington Way does look rather wide and unfinished - https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4...4jVdvU-kw3sbX4iqNA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

[StuartG]

Would that have stopped road planners in the 30s though?

I don't think it was there in the 1930s. Since the whole pre-war relief and post war ringway ideas were ditched parts that were 'reserved' have been built over.

Here (from Wikipedia) is where the later motorway standard Ringway 2 rather than the simpler earlier dual carriageway Whitehorse/Southend Lane would have run if the 1960s planners had their way:

Heading south from the A2, Ringway 2 would have crossed golf courses and sports grounds west of Avery Hill to reach the A20 at Mottingham where its next junction would have been constructed. Next, heading west out of the London Borough of Greenwich, the motorway would have briefly crossed the northern tip of the London Borough of Bromley, via another group of playing fields before entering the London Borough of Lewisham to connect to the A2212 near Grove Park station. Here the route encounters the first substantial urban development cutting an alignment through the London County Council's Downham Estate - land already in public ownership, thereby avoiding the need for expensive land purchases and compensation payments. Here the motorway would have run parallel with Shroffold Road and Durham Hill to cross Downham Fields then run parallel with Downham Way to meet Bromley Road (A21) where the next junction would have been located.

West of Bromley Road, Ringway 2 would have followed a westerly alignment, crossing the River Ravensbourne, and running across more sports fields and the northern corner of Beckenham Place Park to a junction with Beckenham Hill Road (A2015) near Stumpshill Wood where it would have left the London Borough of Lewisham and re-entered the London Borough of Bromley.

From Beckenham Hill Road, Ringway 2 would have continued through more open land towards Lower Sydenham station where the motorway would have turned south to run along the side of the railway line past New Beckenham station to the point where the railway crosses the River Beck and then the main railway line from Victoria station. Here the route would have followed the railway line (now also Tramlink's route 2) south-west towards Birkbeck station where a junction would have been built to connect to Elmers End Road (A214).

Shivers your timbers dunnit?

 

[Dogtrousers]

Am I being thick here? Whitefoot Lane is a fair way of Jevington Way. Whitefoot Lane ends at a Mosque at the top of Hither Green Cemetery (where I turn onto and off it as part of my commute)

I was puzzled by why Whitefoot La and Southend La were these isolated bits of dual carriageway that seemed over-engineered for the location, and when I looked at a 1930s map and you could see that they seemed to be lined up with the similarly wide Jeavington way, via a non-existent bridge over the railway pointing towards the roundabout formerly known as the Land of Leather roundabout. So it looked to me like they intended to link these roads up eventually (I could be wrong). Although what would happen to all that traffic at the Bell Green end of Southend La, where Sansburys is, I don't know. Probably squirt it all up Sydenham High St.

As far as the ringways go, what a nightmare that would have been, with full fat 6 lane motorways all over the place. Although I have to admit that sometimes I sit in my car on the South Circular, occasionally inching forward, thinking that maybe they had a point. The cbrd site is absolutely fascinating on that score.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I don't think it was there in the 1930s. Since the whole pre-war relief and post war ringway ideas were ditched parts that were 'reserved' have been built over.

Here (from Wikipedia) is where the later motorway standard Ringway 2 rather than the simpler earlier dual carriageway Whitehorse/Southend Lane would have run if the 1960s planners had their way:

Heading south from the A2, Ringway 2 would have crossed golf courses and sports grounds west of Avery Hill to reach the A20 at Mottingham where its next junction would have been constructed. Next, heading west out of the London Borough of Greenwich, the motorway would have briefly crossed the northern tip of the London Borough of Bromley, via another group of playing fields before entering the London Borough of Lewisham to connect to the A2212 near Grove Park station. Here the route encounters the first substantial urban development cutting an alignment through the London County Council's Downham Estate - land already in public ownership, thereby avoiding the need for expensive land purchases and compensation payments. Here the motorway would have run parallel with Shroffold Road and Durham Hill to cross Downham Fields then run parallel with Downham Way to meet Bromley Road (A21) where the next junction would have been located.

West of Bromley Road, Ringway 2 would have followed a westerly alignment, crossing the River Ravensbourne, and running across more sports fields and the northern corner of Beckenham Place Park to a junction with Beckenham Hill Road (A2015) near Stumpshill Wood where it would have left the London Borough of Lewisham and re-entered the London Borough of Bromley.

From Beckenham Hill Road, Ringway 2 would have continued through more open land towards Lower Sydenham station where the motorway would have turned south to run along the side of the railway line past New Beckenham station to the point where the railway crosses the River Beck and then the main railway line from Victoria station. Here the route would have followed the railway line (now also Tramlink's route 2) south-west towards Birkbeck station where a junction would have been built to connect to Elmers End Road (A214).

Shivers your timbers dunnit?

It's surprisingly difficult to find detailed route plans but the Ringways project, dating from the 60s and cancelled in 1973, was effectively a revival of Abercrombie's County of London plan (1943), which in turn followed on from the US-style Parkways in The Highway Development Survey of 1937. None of this, of course, will help the woman turning left off the A21..

 

[martint235]

I was puzzled by why Whitefoot La and Southend La were these isolated bits of dual carriageway that seemed over-engineered for the location, and when I looked at a 1930s map and you could see that they seemed to be lined up with the similarly wide Jeavington way, via a non-existent bridge over the railway pointing towards the roundabout formerly known as the Land of Leather roundabout. So it looked to me like they intended to link these roads up eventually (I could be wrong). Although what would happen to all that traffic at the Bell Green end of Southend La, where Sansburys is, I don't know. Probably squirt it all up Sydenham High St.

As far as the ringways go, what a nightmare that would have been, with full fat 6 lane motorways all over the place. Although I have to admit that sometimes I sit in my car on the South Circular, occasionally inching forward, thinking that maybe they had a point. The cbrd site is absolutely fascinating on that score.

I'd never even thought about it and I commute down Whitefoot and onto Southend Lane every day.

A212 then A2199 are possible extensions I suppose.

 

[Dogtrousers]

It's surprisingly difficult to find detailed route plans but the Ringways project, dating from the 60s and cancelled in 1973, was effectively a revival of Abercrombie's County of London plan (1943), which in turn followed on from the US-style Parkways in The Highway Development Survey of 1937. None of this, of course, will help the woman turning left off the A21..

You may already have seen it but the CBRD site has Google Earth KMLs of the ringway project here

But be warned. If you haven't already seen this site, it can be a terrible time-waster. Almost as time consuming as trying to turn right outside Kebab Town.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

You may already have seen it but the CBRD site has Google Earth KMLs of the ringway project here

But be warned. If you haven't already seen this site, it can be a terrible time-waster. Almost as time consuming as trying to turn right outside Kebab Town.

I just tried to download Google Earth but it wasn't playing so I gave up after following a link from CBRD.

 

[jonny jeez]

Another alternative being that I'm not all that serious about my post, I reckon.

But it is like the stress of not knowing if it's okay to hold open doors for women, etc.

Anyway, I'm starting to do it myself! - Man Righteously Defends Feminist Viewpoints Because Women Can't Speak For Themselves.

<Gets coat, heads to bed>

Whilst you are only joking (I think) it its one of the reasons I thought so long about posting. Even then, trying to only refer to the sex of the rider in the description so that they can identify themselves. From that point on I refer to them as the rider...simply because it makes no difference to me...beyond identification...whether they stand or sit when they pee.

This thread really has served it purpose In settling the question as to whether rider is a cc member. Now that I've established they are not...and that I need to grow a pair and just talk to them...the thread is kind of dead...and yet here I am contributing to it some more.

You are naughty.

 

[Milkfloat]

So when is the wedding?

 

[steveindenmark]

We could turn this into a sequal of Love Actually if you find her.

I dont mind taking advice from other riders as long as it is done politely and with the right intention. Whether I take the advice is another matter.