Actual dooring...

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BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Would you like to rephrase that a little more politely? I don't agree, btw. Moton is an insult, cager is a situational explanation for behaviour inherent to all of us to a greater or lesser degree.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
I would imagine a large proportion of cyclists including those on CC also drive a vehicle.
 
D

Deleted member 1258

Guest
ah, cut the crap BM, you know full well the implication in using terms like moton or cager, I'm with those that that don't like the terms and believe their use doesn't do cyclists any favours.


+1 on that, as long as we keep using terms like that the situation on the road will always be them and us.
 

Jezston

Über Member
Location
London
'Cager' isn't directly an insult, but is used routinely in a derogatory fashion.

A particular abbreviation of 'Pakistani' would merely be a neutral descriptive term had it not been used routinely in a derogatory fashion for several decades.
 

Bicycle

Guest
Would you like to rephrase that a little more politely? I don't agree, btw. Moton is an insult, cager is a situational explanation for behaviour inherent to all of us to a greater or lesser degree.


I'm with you on staying polite, but not on your view of 'cager'.

It comes with spices in the sauce that give it (at best) a slightly pejorative and sneering flavour.

If we want simply to describe drivers, we can use words like 'driver' or 'motorist'.

You may use it in the belief that it is a neutral word, but most readers will see it otherwise.
 
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BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Oh, I didn't say it's a neutral word, but it's not an insult. It accurately describes what happens to all drivers inside a metal cage, i.e. risk compensation to the disadvantage of those outside the cage. Moton, on the other hand, is pretty much pure insult.
 

Bicycle

Guest
Oh, I didn't say it's a neutral word, but it's not an insult. It accurately describes what happens to all drivers inside a metal cage, i.e. risk compensation to the disadvantage of those outside the cage. Moton, on the other hand, is pretty much pure insult.


I'm not sure what you mean here.

When you say it isn't neutral, do you mean it has some slight negative loading? It certainly isn't positive, so if it isn't neutral what is it?

I'm not sure where we are with saying it isn't neutral but isn't pejorative. Is there a category slotted between them somehow?

When I see it in writing, it's often used in a phrase or passage that is essentially negative about motorists.

I drive and cycle. A lot. In my youth I rode and occasionally raced motorcycles. I don't have a particular camp or particular loyalties. I love being on bikes and in cars.

Nonetheless, I find the term 'cager' slightly offensive as a description of drivers. I imagine most drivers find it either mildly insulting, highly risible or unhelpfully finger-pointing.

Of course I feel slightly exposed when cycling, but I hardly feel wrapped in cotton wool when in a car between artics on the M50 in pouring rain.

But when I'm on my bicycle I do not see drivers (the huge majority of whom are couteous, polite and skillful) as in any way altered by their magical status of being in a passenger safety cell.

Similarly, when I'm driving I don't see cyclists (many of whom are courteous, polite and skillful) as soft-impact bean bags that I can cannon off my door mirrors while enjoying the safety of my 'cage'.

We are all road users. There are cyclists, motorists and others.

Given that most drivers probably see the term cager as negative, is there any point in uysing it unless we are trying to encourage and 'us & them' mentality?
 

Archie_tect

De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
Location
Northumberland
An observation on the original video. The cyclist undertook the car on the kerbside as the passenger opened the door [not the driver as it's left hand drive country]. Would you as a passenger getting out on the kerbside check for cyclists passing between you and the kerb?
 

Origamist

Legendary Member
An observation on the original video. The cyclist undertook the car on the kerbside as the passenger opened the door [not the driver as it's left hand drive country]. Would you as a passenger getting out on the kerbside check for cyclists passing between you and the kerb?

Yes, I'd be wary of cyclists, pedestrians and street furniture.
 

Mad at urage

New Member
Oh, I didn't say it's a neutral word, but it's not an insult. It accurately describes what happens to all drivers inside a metal cage, i.e. risk compensation to the disadvantage of those outside the cage. Moton, on the other hand, is pretty much pure insult.
Wrong. Risk compensation is always a potential, not always present.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

When you say it isn't neutral, do you mean it has some slight negative loading? It certainly isn't positive, so if it isn't neutral what is it?

I'm not sure where we are with saying it isn't neutral but isn't pejorative. Is there a category slotted between them somehow?

When I see it in writing, it's often used in a phrase or passage that is essentially negative about motorists.

I drive and cycle. A lot. In my youth I rode and occasionally raced motorcycles. I don't have a particular camp or particular loyalties. I love being on bikes and in cars.

Nonetheless, I find the term 'cager' slightly offensive as a description of drivers. I imagine most drivers find it either mildly insulting, highly risible or unhelpfully finger-pointing.

Of course I feel slightly exposed when cycling, but I hardly feel wrapped in cotton wool when in a car between artics on the M50 in pouring rain.

But when I'm on my bicycle I do not see drivers (the huge majority of whom are courteous, polite and skillful) as in any way altered by their magical status of being in a passenger safety cell.

Similarly, when I'm driving I don't see cyclists (many of whom are courteous, polite and skillful) as soft-impact bean bags that I can cannon off my door mirrors while enjoying the safety of my 'cage'.

We are all road users. There are cyclists, motorists and others.

Given that most drivers probably see the term cager as negative, is there any point in using it unless we are trying to encourage and 'us & them' mentality?
Right.
 
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BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Cages reduce perceived risk, and drivers compensate for that whilst driving. Wrong is only your opinion, pun intended. ;)

I'm slightly surprised we haven't had people on here claiming that risk compensation doesn't apply to *them*. :rolleyes:
 
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