Adverts for illegal ebikes

[classic33]

20 mph should be adopted, it's the now common urban and city speed limit. Travelling at the flow will reduce dangerous overtaking.

The thing is not all are ridden on the roads. Shared cycle paths are there for use up to 18mph. Above that and you should be using the roads.

I'm all for UK regulations reverting to the those we had prior to the last change. Especially the cut-off speed. Want to go faster, pedal a bit.

 

[Drago]

Pedal at 20mph then. Even for me weighing as much as a small skip full or potatoes and needing a hip replacement can manage it.

As it stands there is a clear delineation in performance that allows ebikes to be legally classed as just bicycles. Start merging things closer and the argument not to have i surance, licence, MOT etc like everyone else starts to weaken.

As it is there are compliant ebikes. Anyone fancying a bit more can buy a fully legal and registered speed pedelec should they so choose. That very few do choose, despite the relatively inexpensive running costs and insurance (I was quoted less than 40 quid when I looked into it) compared to a moped shows the demand is not perhaps as robust as many believe it to be.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Pedal at 20mph then. Even for me weighing as much as a small skip full or potatoes and needing a hip replacement can manage it.

As it stands there is a clear delineation in performance that allows ebikes to be legally classed as just bicycles. Start merging things closer and the argument not to have i surance, licence, MOT etc like everyone else starts to weaken.

As it is there are compliant ebikes. Anyone fancying a bit more can buy a fully legal and registered speed pedelec should they so choose. That very few do choose, despite the relatively inexpensive running costs and insurance (I was quoted less than 40 quid when I looked into it) compared to a moped shows the demand is not perhaps as robust as many believe it to be.

Exactly how I feel

There have been 2 petition to the government about increasing the speed cut off and power and both have been touted a lot of forums

but have gained little actual signatures

seems like some people want 20 mph and MORE POWER and shout about it
but people with ebikes are not that bothered in the main
normaly situation of a few people shouting but a mass saying Nah

 

[classic33]

Exactly how I feel

There have been 2 petition to the government about increasing the speed cut off and power and both have been touted a lot of forums

but have gained little actual signatures

seems like some people want 20 mph and MORE POWER and shout about it
but people with ebikes are not that bothered in the main
normaly situation of a few people shouting but a mass saying Nah

And in two years time, when electric vehicles become liable for VED, there's a good chance that e-bikes that don't comply to the current EPAC regulations will become liable as well.

 

[fossyant]

20 mph should be adopted, it's the now common urban and city speed limit. Travelling at the flow will reduce dangerous overtaking.

Stuff that. Some of us work hard to be able to sustain and beat 20 mph in traffic. Can't be having plebs doing 20 mph with shoot brakes and no idea of speed. (awaits the flames). Thing is, the 20 mph will be used in inappropriate places, bike parks, shared areas, canal tow paths = just beause they can. Seen too many idiots running 15.5 on a tow path, just because they can, then a slower speed due to there being other's about - yes they are idiots, but it takes alot of work to break 15 mph or even 20 mph on a rough surface - idiots will be idiots, but most won't be able to pedal a normal bike anywhere near as fast.

 

[fossyant]

Halfords/Amazon etc are all happy to sell illegal scooters/bikes...

 

[classic33]

Stuff that. Some of us work hard to be able to sustain and beat 20 mph in traffic. Can't be having plebs doing 20 mph with shoot brakes and no idea of speed. (awaits the flames). Thing is, the 20 mph will be used in inappropriate places, bike parks, shared areas, canal tow paths = just beause they can. Seen too many idiots running 15.5 on a tow path, just because they can, then a slower speed due to there being other's about - yes they are idiots, but it takes alot of work to break 15 mph or even 20 mph on a rough surface - idiots will be idiots, but most won't be able to pedal a normal bike anywhere near as fast.

Not an e-bike owner, but I did campaign to get the peak motor output increased, as well as the higher top speed. But I was told it wouldn't be enough for some(Now proving true) and to be careful what I wish for.

That was nearly ten years ago since I was last involved. Four wheels were finally brought under the regulations.

 

[fossyant]

Not an e-bike owner, but I did campaign to get the peak motor output increased, as well as the higher top speed. But I was told it wouldn't be enough for some(Now proving true) and to be careful what I wish for.

That was nearly ten years ago since I was last involved. Four wheels were finally brought under the regulations.

TBH It would be a nightmare commuting with ebikes that can do 20 mph. The 15.5 ones can still outgun a rider from the lights, you've then got to catch and pass, then next lights they are off again - I have a guy that pinns his e-bike from the go from lights. I'm riding a heavy loaded MTB, but I can get it to do 17-20 on the flat. I catch him soon enough, but it's the same, and some are novice riders, so you just keep getting cut up by them.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Halfords/Amazon etc are all happy to sell illegal scooters/bikes...

Yes - I have seen them do it

but they do say "you won;t ride it on the road will you" at some point in the conversation

probably quietly

very quietly

I presume Amazon have it printed somwhere on the webpage
in font 2
maybe in pale yellow

mind you - I have seen scooters for sale at markets and other such places - I doubt they even bother to say anything - especially the stalls that are here today - gone in 10 minutes

 

[CXRAndy]

Can't be having plebs doing 20 mph with shoot brakes and no idea of speed

No, seriously, if you want people to get out of car and commute from, lets say for argument 10 miles each way. They will invariably want to arrive non sweaty and in good time.

20 mph is not unreasonable or excessive, it may not agree with your being overtaken effortlessly attitude. It aligns with the 20mph suburban/city speeds limits. 15mph cut-off, means an ave of around 13mph to stay under and receive full assist. 20mph cut-off , ave 17-18mph.

It means a journey of 10 miles if cut from 46mins to just over 30 mins. it may not sound a lot, but people's perception of travelling and time can be critical, hell UK government spending hundreds of billions on HS2 to reduce travelling time by 45 mins. If we are to encourage more folk to use less polluting transport, every bit of encouragement should be used. Similar commute time via a bike compared to a car is crucial in attracting the switch to cycling.

Speed pedelecs are common in Europe for their speed and the easy legislative process of acquiring the necessary documentation. I suspect the low costs too make them attractive.

Imagine replacing thousands of cars going into cities for speed pedelecs or 20mph restricted ebikes, far less pollution, accidents would be fewer and much, much less severe compared with vehicle/cyclists collisions. We all know cyclists don't like to fall or crash, because it hurts, cars drivers are isolated from these sensations.

I know folk who have fast e bikes, they say it takes a fair bit of effort to maintain a 20mph ave, due to drag resistance, but up to 17-19mph the effort is almost like a gentle pootle in effort.

 

[classic33]

No, seriously, if you want people to get out of car and commute from, lets say for argument 10 miles each way. They will invariably want to arrive non sweaty and in good time.

20 mph is not unreasonable or excessive, it may not agree with your being overtaken effortlessly attitude. It aligns with the 20mph suburban/city speeds limits. 15mph cut-off, means an ave of around 13mph to stay under and receive full assist. 20mph cut-off , ave 17-18mph.

It means a journey of 10 miles if cut from 46mins to just over 30 mins. it may not sound a lot, but people's perception of travelling and time can be critical, hell UK government spending hundreds of billions on HS2 to reduce travelling time by 45 mins. If we are to encourage more folk to use less polluting transport, every bit of encouragement should be used. Similar commute time via a bike compared to a car is crucial in attracting the switch to cycling.

Speed pedelecs are common in Europe for their speed and the easy legislative process of acquiring the necessary documentation. I suspect the low costs too make them attractive.

Imagine replacing thousands of cars going into cities for speed pedelecs or 20mph restricted ebikes, far less pollution, accidents would be fewer and much, much less severe compared with vehicle/cyclists collisions. We all know cyclists don't like to fall or crash, because it hurts, cars drivers are isolated from these sensations.

I know folk who have fast e bikes, they say it takes a fair bit of effort to maintain a 20mph ave, due to drag resistance, but up to 17-19mph the effort is almost like a gentle pootle in effort.

And there, in part, lies the problem. People don't want to do the paperwork required. Much better to pretend it's a pedal cycle, which doesn't require any.

 

[Alex321]

Halfords/Amazon etc are all happy to sell illegal scooters/bikes...

The issue is that they aren't illegal as such, just illegal to use on the public road.

 

[Pale Rider]

The issue is that they aren't illegal as such, just illegal to use on the public road.

Illegal to use anywhere the public has access, which includes cycle paths, MTB trails, and the majority of open spaces.

Practically, a buyer of such a bike has nowhere to use it legally.

 

[icowden]

and at no point in the advert does it say that this bike is not legal for road use
so - I think I am safe in assuming - people could buy it and use it on roads without realising that it is not legal
(clearly I am referring to UK laws and regulation here - other countries vary!)

You will notice that the bike is being distributed by a Spanish company. UK Laws are almost certainly not relevant unless they are to do with import duty.

in general, just said it is not their problem - they just sell it for them

Yep. They are just being the middleman for the Spanish firm.

does anyone know the actual laws regarding this - surely Groupon ARE responsible whether they have the expertise/knowledge or not is not relevant (e.g. if they sold guns they couldn't say "whoops didn't know")

also - anyone else seeing adverts like this selling electric motorbikes but showing them as "ebikes"

The ASA have been clear with other adverts that an ebike constitutes a road legal electric bike, and it has fined companies for using ebike to refer to motorbikes / mopeds etc.

 

[Gwylan]

I was passed today on a shared footway area. I was ebiking along at about 20 kph.
Passed by a fat tyres bike, with a youff on board.
Hummed pass me, no pedalling, and disappeared over the horizon, at about 40kph.
Reflecting, my first reaction was that of Mr Toad. I want one.
Than thinking it through. Yes I definitely want one.
The genie is out of the bottle and they are going to struggle to get it back in.

Remember CB radios? Terribly illegal and eventually the system had to face the fact that mass civil disobedience trumps all the laws and regulation that the system can impose.