Advice please

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Scoosh

Velocouchiste
Moderator
Location
Edinburgh
I'm a recent owner of a recumbent and think I still have some way to convert the *'Hills' in to 'Slopes/ Inclines'* on the 'bent, so Bent legs have some development to do .... ^_^

Winter + ice :cold: does not make for relaxed riding - 'bent or DF ... :sad: ... but it's less distance to fall on a 'bent ! ;)


**I use a grading system for upwardly-inclined pieces of tarmac:
  • incline
  • slope
  • hill
  • wall
My goal is to progress any bit of road from the bottom to the top of the table ! :training:
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
I'm a recent owner of a recumbent and think I still have some way to convert the *'Hills' in to 'Slopes/ Inclines'* on the 'bent, so Bent legs have some development to do .... ^_^

Winter + ice :cold: does not make for relaxed riding - 'bent or DF ... :sad: ... but it's less distance to fall on a 'bent ! ;)


**I use a grading system for upwardly-inclined pieces of tarmac:
  • incline
  • slope
  • hill
  • wall
My goal is to progress any bit of road from the bottom to the top of the table ! :training:
I use a similar grading system now I have gone bent...

Incline = Hill
Slope = Hill
Hill = how did I manage to cycle far enough from Norfolk to find a hill!
 

Recycle

Über Member
Location
Caterham
**I use a grading system for upwardly-inclined pieces of tarmac:
  • incline
  • slope
  • hill
  • wall
I live in a valley in the North Downs so no matter what direction I choose I hit an incline of some sort. I'm equipped with middle aged legs so my grading is as follows:

upstream:
  • incline = hill (may still be able to take on a DF cyclist of my strength)
  • slope = hill (probably breakeven point with a DF in terms of effort)
  • hill = steep hill (DF makes me look foolish)
  • wall = push (I've managed Ditchling beacon without pushing but I don't rate it as the most fun thing I've done).
Downstream:
  • level = can beat by own speed on a DF in neutral conditions. With a headwind - no competition.
  • incline = fun
  • slope = more fun, especially when overtaking a DF's at speed.
  • hill =exhilarating, irritating when cars slow you down.
  • wall = Downright dangerous (47mph measured by GPS is so far my record on a slope about 1 mile from me. Limited in speed by bends, I'm sure I could get 60mph if it were straight & without a roundabout at the foot).
 

BenM

Veteran
Location
Guildford
Upstream I find is a bit interesting - definitely feels slower than the DF but is it? I don't know. Perhaps I should get the Fairfax out of the cellar and try out the local upstream challenge ;)

>>47mph measured by GPS is so far my record on a slope about 1 mile from me

Yup - seriously fast down hill. I did wonder why cars weren't overtaking me going down the new road shortly after it opened (national speed limit applies...) Now I have another year or so into my legs I better have another go :smile: My record is 47.8mph by gps... there was a spike just after of 51.2 but I don't believe it... I wonder if there is a strava section for that piece of road?
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
Progress update: Four rides in now and today completed 42 miles to Hunstanton and back. Quite windy which I found disconcerting on the sea front. I am now confident about pulling away - but would avoid it on an uphill still, and when crossing traffic at junctions I wait until the road is clear into the distance. Yesterday I had cramp in the top of my thighs, which is something I have never experienced on a standard bike, so I moved my crank forward about 1cm and moved my cleats down about the same distance, and this seems to have helped.
Average speed today was only 11mph - but against the wind on a fairly hilly (Norfolk hilly) route I was happy with this in my current state of unfitness.
Shoulders are still fine on the bent - they just hurt the rest of the time when I am not distracted!
 

Recycle

Über Member
Location
Caterham
Your confidence will grow the more you use the bike. Uphill starts are more tricky and being in the wrong gear on a bent is more of a problem than on a DF but you will get used to it. I also found myself relaxing more as I got used to the bike. That makes a big difference.

I cramped easily when I started on the bent as well. Some of it is due to tension (it was with me anyway). I only cramp now from fatigue, which will happen on any bike.

I've never ridden a LWB. I bet that will tour well.
 

mrandmrspoves

Middle aged bald git.
Location
Narfuk
I've never ridden a LWB. I bet that will tour well.

Yes definitely more relaxed today. Yesterday's cramp may have been fatigue - but I think position and cold as I have cycled much longer distances on a DF without ever getting cramp.

I do use the gears much more than I did on previous bikes and the full range from Granny to top. I have already got it into my head to put the bent into a low gear before I stop so I can pull away more easily. The main thing is that being supported in a big comfy seat you cannot counter balance using your body as you would on a DF - so it does feel a little vulnerable when you pull away unless you can get some velocity.

I think the Linear will tour well - but at about 15kg unladen (excluding racks and retro fittings) it is not a light tourer, I hope to get to a state of fitness where I can manage some light touring.....maybe coast to coast in a couple of years time. (but if my shoulder issues can be resolved - that may be on my Dalesman)
 
OP
OP
D

dave249

Active Member
Thanks for all the responses. There seams to be a lot of people recommending trikes. I'll have a think about that, although I'm not sure it will pass he 'wife acceptability test'!
 
Lots of good replies already, but here's my tuppenceworth.

I started building and riding bents about 2 years ago. Five home build projects later and one "real bent" (Metaphysic) I have now clocked up something like 6000+ km, of which a 1450km and 3400km touring trip with tent etc. My personal experience is that I can't climb as fast as on my DF road bike, but I'm not that far off. But I can climb even very steep hills (including the french Col du Tourmalet with luggage) as long as I don't mind spinning away at 7 or 8km/h. At these speeds it can get a bit wobbly to keep on line, so good concentration is required. I also find that the nature of the steering makes a big difference to handling at these low speeds. The "hamster" bars give a noticeable "tiller effect" which can make the bike twitchy, while the "open cockpit" bars allow the arms to be more or less straight and makes for less sensitive handling. The same bike with different handlebar configurations can feel completely different to ride.

On the road I often find myself with a huge grin and shouting to the wind "this is so f***ing good!!!" I have never done that on a DF bike, even when I'm really enjoying myself.

For me personally, I am never going to break any world records, so the main plusses of a bent are:

1 - comfort over long distances; literally no aches and pains anywhere (aside from legs!) even after 7+ hours of riding

2 - brilliant all round vision; on an upright bike I find myself with my head lowered, looking at the road in front of my wheel. On my bents I can power away at full tilt and still have a perfect all round view of the countryside I'm riding through.

On the downside, I don't feel that my bents are "urban friendly", and I try to avoid built up areas and in-town traffic. For me, the problem is that it is often necessary to ride slowly between or around cars, with sudden stop/starts. I find such slow speed slaloming quite tricky, and if you stop in the wrong gear it's much more difficult - even impossible - to start off again because you can't get out of the saddle and heave on the pedals to get momentum as you can on an upright.

In terms of choosing a bent bike for a newbie, I'd say that the lower the pedals are compared to the seat height the easier it is to control at low speeds and to start off. A low seat helps too because you can easily get a foot down when stopping. However, such low pedal, low seat designs are not the best for fast out-of-town riding. I'd suggest to a newbie to try to borrow or rent an "easy" bike for a few days to get the hang of riding a bent, and then choose a more "advanced" model for evolving from a beginner to an "intermediate" rider. There are so many different types of bent out there, the best is to try as many as possible (or, at least, as many different types - low racer, mid racer, hi racer, FWD, RWD, SWB, LWB...) before splashing out a lot of money.

I have no experience of trikes, but I would make the following observations: 1 - yes, you can ride very very slowly uphill, but what fun is that; 2 - they are generally very low, which means visibility to other traffic is more of an issue; 3 - going round bends very fast (e.g. the very fast descents on those steep hills that you climbed very slowly) can be tricky cos you can't lean like a bike; 4 - one or two models fold up, but try getting a non-folding trike on a car bike rack!

Whatever bent you get, enjoy it!!!
 

Recycle

Über Member
Location
Caterham
if you stop in the wrong gear it's much more difficult- even impossible - to start off again
This is a common problem with bents unless you have hub gears which are usually hellish expensive.

There is however a compromise. The off-the-peg gears offered with HP Velotechnik bents is the SRAM dual drive and I must say it's a superb option for a recumbent. If you aren't familiar with the system its a SRAM rear dérailleur combined with a 3 speed hub gear. The hub gear substitutes for a front dérailleur and its big advantage is that it makes it easy to recover from the "wrong gear" problem with a recumbent.
 
Thanks for your comment, Recycle. I have spent many nerdy hours doing gear ratio range, weight, efficiency, and cost analyses of various hub gear options. If you can stand the extra weight, I feel the Rohloff 14 gear hub is a clear winner. But I don't have that kind of cash, and I'm still rather a weight weenie. I agree the Sram dual drive option is a very good compromise, but it does add some efficiency loss in the gearbox, which causes anguish to geeky riders like me :-)

One reason why I favour FWD bents is that, when stopped at the traffic lights, you can (a) look down to see what gear you're in, and (b) stand up, lift the front wheel, change gear, and rotate the pedal by hand to slip into the new gear. You can't do this so easily with a RWD. Not as good a solution as your DD hub gear, but it is helpful.

Incidentally, (sorry, but I've gone into geeky mode now), another good reason for a hub gear for FWD bikes is that you don't get the chain angle deflection when on the extreme low or high gears. It also cleans up the front end, cos you don't have the cassette and derailleur sticking out into the airflow. However, to get the cleanest front end you need a Rohloff which avoids the need for a front derailleur and multiple chainrings too.

One day I shall no doubt try out a hub gear option, and I can well imagine that it will be the Sram DD unit because, as you say, it is a very good compromise.
 
I have no experience of trikes, but I would make the following observations: 1 - yes, you can ride very very slowly uphill, but what fun is that; 2 - they are generally very low, which means visibility to other traffic is more of an issue; 3 - going round bends very fast (e.g. the very fast descents on those steep hills that you climbed very slowly) can be tricky cos you can't lean like a bike; 4 - one or two models fold up, but try getting a non-folding trike on a car bike rack!

Whatever bent you get, enjoy it!!!
1:- Depends how strong/fit you are.
One advantage of a trike is the fact you can gear it very low, so you can climb at a low speed with little effort.
Plus you have a different mindset on a trike, It's "You can go as slow as you like without falling off".

2:- Not an issue.
They are so different that drivers "see" you much better than an upwrong, hence more room.
A trike rides about two foot wider than a bike, so drivers have to pull out further. This makes overtaking safer as they are a lot less likely to try and squeeze through a gap.
Also being on three wheels means that your much more stable, so close passes are less of an issue. I don't like them but they don't bother me that much.

3:- You don't lean a trike, you just lean yourself.
If the road is nice and smooth then it's a bit 50-50 which is faster downhill.
Add a bit of gravel, potholes, ice, etc, etc and a trike wins hands down.
On a mixed run I have to be carefull on downhill corners that I don't run into the bike infront as I tend to need to brake less on corners.

4:- About the only real issue with trike. That and public transport.
But there are work around for them.

I run a Schlumpf HSD-Rohloff combo on my trike.
It's an expensive setup but I think the best for a touring trike.
My gear range is 10"-130" in 21 steps.
 
Thanks for your reply, Tigerbiten, and I stand corrected on my comments re trikes and cornering. I repeat that I have no experience of trikes, and I really don't want to be seen as "taking sides" for bikes over trikes. On the contrary, I am just as happy as the original thread poster to benefit from the experience of trike owners to learn more about their values.

I accept that flat out cornering can be faster on a well set up, very low CofG trike (where lifting of the inside wheel is rare), with an experienced rider who is used to significant body weight shifting. But remove any of these provisos and I wonder if it's still true? When it comes to potholes and bad road surfaces I've heard that some riders fall foul of avoiding the pothole by letting it pass between the front wheels (on a tadpole) only to be thrown off line when the rear wheel runs smack into it. This sounds nasty on flat out corner! Not that bike riders are immune to this, but it's perhaps easier to avoid such things with two in-line wheels?

However, I still feel that the inherent "lowness" of trikes is an issue when sharing the road with traffic. I too notice that, when overtaking, car drivers often give me more clearance for my recumbent than my DF bike, possibly because they are unsure of the stability of this rare and unknown vehicle. However, that presumes that they can see me. On an open road, with no other cars, this is generally the case. But as soon as there is a line of cars - where the first car hides a low recumbent or trike from the cars behind - or when amongst traffic in an urban environment, there is no part of a low recumbent or trike that is visible to car drivers above the line of their bodywork. Pulling up next to a car stopped at a traffic light, it is very unlikely that the driver will notice you if your bike, body, or head does not stick up above his window line; and even then it's not guaranteed. I always ride with a rear flag on a rod for extra visibility, but I know that this has little value in a busy urban environment where car drivers' visual attention is already strained.

I would suggest that the vague trend towards 700C wheeled Hi Racer recumbents is largely due to a recognition that Low Racers are much less visible in real-world riding situations. (I qualify this by acknowledging that rolling resistance and shock absorption are equally valid, additional, reasons.)

I repeat that I don't want to start a slanging match (as I sadly often see on forums) over bikes versus trikes, but I hope the original poster will be better placed to choose his first bent by comments on the pros/cons of all his options. The difference between the range of various incarnations of bents and tikes is so much greater than for DF bikes, and this makes a newbie's choice all the more confusing. I also value comments from trike owners (both pros and cons) as maybe one day I will take the plunge and try one myself!
 
"However, I still feel that the inherent "lowness" of trikes is an issue when sharing the road with traffic. I too notice that, when overtaking, car drivers often give me more clearance for my recumbent than my DF bike, possibly because they are unsure of the stability of this rare and unknown vehicle. However, that presumes that they can see me. On an open road, with no other cars, this is generally the case. But as soon as there is a line of cars - where the first car hides a low recumbent or trike from the cars behind - or when amongst traffic in an urban environment, there is no part of a low recumbent or trike that is visible to car drivers above the line of their bodywork. Pulling up next to a car stopped at a traffic light, it is very unlikely that the driver will notice you if your bike, body, or head does not stick up above his window line; and even then it's not guaranteed. I always ride with a rear flag on a rod for extra visibility, but I know that this has little value in a busy urban environment where car drivers' visual attention is already strained."

There are assumptions here that are simply not realised in practice. I rode my trike 1000 miles across France in 2010 with not a single incident - not even a close call. This included town work. It was rather the converse I got fed up being waved to, hooted at, 'thumbs up' gestures and as for photographs and video clips there must have been hundreds! I don't hear that drivers of Lotus Elise's and Caterham Seven's worry about visibility.

Yes sometimes drivers don't see you but these drivers are inattentive and wouldn't see anything! Evidence the number of drivers that hit parked cars, trees, emergency vehicles etc!

"I would suggest that the vague trend towards 700C wheeled Hi Racer recumbents is largely due to a recognition that Low Racers are much less visible in real-world riding situations. (I qualify this by acknowledging that rolling resistance and shock absorption are equally valid, additional, reasons.)"

I suspect the reason for the switch to high racers is the availability of lightweight wheels and parts.
 
I always say the most dangerous place I ride my trike is the local supermarket carpark ............ :tongue:

My trike is only around 8" wider then a bike but on a road it rides around 2' wider.
So I tend to ride my trike slightly differently than bike.
Because of the extra width I'm always in primary so I tend to more in the center of the lane.
Even in a group ride I find my inside wheel is outside the line taken by most bikes.
It's mostly to stop cars trying to squeeze past, they have to pull out and overtake me properly.
This means that they are pulling out 4'-6' and not just 18" like a bike.
So cars behind see more movement and know in advance there's something there.

But the downside of the extra width also means that in stop-start traffic, I don't filter unless there is a proper bus lane.
 
Top Bottom