Amazing Japanese Work Culture

[cookiemonster]

Karoshi (過労死, Karōshi), which can be translated literally as "overwork death", is a Japanese term relating to occupational sudden mortality. The most common medical causes of karoshi deaths are heart attacks or strokes due to stress and a starvation diet. Mental stress from the workplace can also cause karoshi through workers taking their own lives. People who commit suicide due to overwork are called karōjisatsu (過労自殺). The phenomenon of death by overwork is also widespread in other parts of Asia. 745,194 deaths worldwide were attributable to long working hours in 2016, based on WHO/ILO data.[1

Happens in China too. There is a movement now called '996.' Nine to nine, 6 days a week, in the private sector, and it's younger Chinese rejecting this work culture, and the subsequent materialism as well, much to the annoyance of the CCP. Many young graduates are aiming for government posts (civil service etc) as 996 doesn't exist and pays more too.

 

[cookiemonster]

Indeed. Our parent company is Japanese, and I've had situations where I would be working at seven or eight in the evening trying to finish something with a Japanese colleague who was in the office in Japan, so well past midnight for them, which is not unusual there.

Our Japanese colleagues get a chance to spend two or three years seconded to one of the international branches. Without exception the ones that I have met have said that they were not looking forward to going back to Japan. Korea and China, and to some extent India, have similar brutal work cultures.

One of the youngsters I teach is called Hitto. His Mother's from Hong Kong but his Father's from Okinawa in Japan. His Dad has said that he will not allow his kid to be educated in Japan as the education system is quite brutal as well and he has refused three promotions from his Japanese employers as it'll mean heading back to Japan and the work culture.

 

[Chris S]

I remember driving on to a garage forecourt and being swamped by staff cleaning windows, checking oil and water, tyres all part of the service. As I left they stood in a line bowing thanking me for the custom. Remarkable.

That would make me cringe

 

[cookiemonster]

That would make me cringe

They do this when an aircraft is pushed back from the gate and is about to taxi to the runway. You see the ground staff bowing to the aircraft as it starts to move. A neat touch I think.

I've seen it when I've travelled from Japan.

 

[Oldhippy]

Me too.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Japan's work ethic looks great but not for those who actually do the work. The work culture is brutal and is one of the reason why Japan's population is ageing and dropping. Very few young people in Japan are willing to have families as they're so knackered. None of my friends in Osaka and Sapporo will have more than one kid, but they all want more. Japan could be going through quite the baby boom if it did what Korea did a few years ago, introduce a maximum working week.

The service is superb but there is a very dark side to it. One of the highest rates of strokes and heart attacks in the world and all due to work pressures.

The suicide rate is comparatively high as well, although I'm told Korea's is comparable.

Very true Cookie, a Japanese friend of mine back in touring days worked for record company and he felt obliged on the company's behalf to be available 24/7. He ended up in hospital with exhaustion and got a bollocking for letting the company down from his superior. He apologised profusely for this. He actually felt ashamed he hadn't been stronger. Very sad.

I've seen this in people: the pressure on individuals can be unrelenting.

 

[HarryTheDog]

I have only had one experience of working with the Japanese and I found them to be very nationalistic ,racist and hated to lose face. It was some years ago.
At the time I was a project technical support engineer ( Telecoms) . My Company was bidding on a large project in the Japanese Islands and we had a few actual Japanese engineers based there.
I was in the UK but we sent a team of British Engineers out there to do the installs of the test network.
The guys onsite said the Japanese guys working for us stayed very late at work but actually didnt do a lot but forced the Brits to also hang about till 22:00 at night doing nowt. One of our guys was Asian and got treated very shabbily by them.
I found the Japanese guys who were supposed to be working for us were actually undermining us and seemed to be promoting our competitors who just happened to be from Japan. They refused to do simple things to help.
1 example. we needed a couple of lengths of co-axial cable for a test box, they refused to buy or obtain it locally and refused to allow the Brits to obtain it, instead they insisted we courier it from the UK.
2 They asked for daft things like we needed to change the colour of all the kit as they did not like the cream colour, the stuff is installed in basements and equipment racks, who cares what colour it is.
I had worked on many of these projects and usually got say 10-20 or so technicqal queries, these jokers came up with 62 day one, out of the 62 I would say 5 were actuall real ones from the end customer. They then added another 60 or so over the month.
. At the end of the bid we never got it of course but the Japanese project leader sent most people a present, I never got one as I had apparently insulted him. ( He needed insulting he was terrible!). The entire crew who went over have worked around the world, they said they would all refuse to go again.
Hopefully over the intervening 20 years their attitudes have changed as I may have to work with them again in the next year or so.( different company now of course)

 

[swee'pea99]

One of the youngsters I teach is called Hitto. His Mother's from Hong Kong but his Father's from Okinawa in Japan. His Dad has said that he will not allow his kid to be educated in Japan as the education system is quite brutal as well and he has refused three promotions from his Japanese employers as it'll mean heading back to Japan and the work culture.

There's a great Japanese film called Crazy Family which features a teenage boy cramming in an attempt to get the crucial mark that will get him into one of the top universities, without which his life will effectively be over. He does this by using one hand to suspend a blade over the other while he reads. When he falls asleep, the blade falls and embeds itself in his hand, jerking him back awake, at which point he re-suspends the blade and carries on...

 

[Arrowfoot]

I have only had one experience of working with the Japanese and I found them to be very nationalistic ,racist and hated to lose face. It was some years ago.
At the time I was a project technical support engineer ( Telecoms) . My Company was bidding on a large project in the Japanese Islands and we had a few actual Japanese engineers based there.
I was in the UK but we sent a team of British Engineers out there to do the installs of the test network.
The guys onsite said the Japanese guys working for us stayed very late at work but actually didnt do a lot but forced the Brits to also hang about till 22:00 at night doing nowt. One of our guys was Asian and got treated very shabbily by them.
I found the Japanese guys who were supposed to be working for us were actually undermining us and seemed to be promoting our competitors who just happened to be from Japan. They refused to do simple things to help.
1 example. we needed a couple of lengths of co-axial cable for a test box, they refused to buy or obtain it locally and refused to allow the Brits to obtain it, instead they insisted we courier it from the UK.
2 They asked for daft things like we needed to change the colour of all the kit as they did not like the cream colour, the stuff is installed in basements and equipment racks, who cares what colour it is.
I had worked on many of these projects and usually got say 10-20 or so technicqal queries, these jokers came up with 62 day one, out of the 62 I would say 5 were actuall real ones from the end customer. They then added another 60 or so over the month.
. At the end of the bid we never got it of course but the Japanese project leader sent most people a present, I never got one as I had apparently insulted him. ( He needed insulting he was terrible!). The entire crew who went over have worked around the world, they said they would all refuse to go again.
Hopefully over the intervening 20 years their attitudes have changed as I may have to work with them again in the next year or so.( different company now of course)

I am surprised that your company attempted to bid for a project in Japan. It is a well known closed system. The companies that I worked for as a rule do not support any project bidding in Japan, France and Germany as all 3 share the same attributes when it comes to foreign bidding. South Korea is also tough and they have an odd approach if they need foreign IP such as software or human capital to complete the work. They will buy it outright and do no allow the foreign provider to enter their business premises. Korean companies will hire foreign talent as part of their workforce.

 

[Brandane]

There is a movement now called '996.' Nine to nine, 6 days a week,

I think I'll start a movement and call it 10-4-4 .

 

[HarryTheDog]

I am surprised that your company attempted to bid for a project in Japan. It is a well known closed system. The companies that I worked for as a rule do not support any project bidding in Japan, France and Germany as all 3 share the same attributes when it comes to foreign bidding. South Korea is also tough and they have an odd approach if they need foreign IP such as software or human capital to complete the work. They will buy it outright and do no allow the foreign provider to enter their business premises. Korean companies will hire foreign talent as part of their workforce.

It was the first and last one we did for a overall project, the Japaneese working for us out there up to then had been selling small equipments made by us. I was livid at the scenario but the sales guys from Europe running the bid told me not to take it to heart as they knew they wouldnt win it, which then made me pissed off with them. ( the company is now no more, sunk most spectacularly years ago after being one of the biggest manufacturers, Nortel Ltd)

 

[Arrowfoot]

It was the first and last one we did for a overall project, the Japaneese working for us out there up to then had been selling small equipments made by us. I was livid at the scenario but the sales guys from Europe running the bid told me not to take it to heart as they knew they wouldnt win it, which then made me pissed off with them. ( the company is now no more, sunk most spectacularly years ago after being one of the biggest manufacturers, Nortel Ltd)

Thanks. It's very odd World indeed.

 

[burntoutbanger]

I think I'll start a movement and call it 10-4-4 .

Where do I sign! 🤣

 

[Andy in Germany]

I have only had one experience of working with the Japanese and I found them to be very nationalistic ,racist and hated to lose face. It was some years ago.

This can, sadly, be a problem. Japan has a serious issue with racism which is similar in a way to the UK's exceptionalism, but even worse. I remember that around the time the French High Speed Train made a world speed record faster than the Japanese Shinkansen, a well educated Japanese was telling me that it was impossible for the Shinkansen do go so fast because "Japan is smaller then France so it can't get up to the same speed", rather than the French managing to make a train that could go faster.

The idea that Japanese are somehow "not Asian" is still not uncommon.

One of our guys was Asian and got treated very shabbily by them.

Sadly also not uncommon: Japan's relationship with Korea is a case in point. Beautiful Wife has done some work trying to work towards reconciliation between J and K but the two governments seems to be trying to antagonise each other at times.

At the end of the bid we never got it of course but the Japanese project leader sent most people a present, I never got one as I had apparently insulted him.

My word, if you were Japanese that would have been you telt good and proper, severe loss of face et c.

There are two different words for "Foreigner" in Japan: correctly a foreigner is gaikokojin which from memory translates as "Honourable person from outside", but a shortened form is in common use: "Gaijin" or "outsider." Unfortunately this has a slightly pejorative meaning, it implies inferiority on the part of the "outsider". Also unfortunately it's the form in common use.

It has to be said that when my Eldest Son went to Japanese kindergarten for a couple of months (where he was the only non-Japanese present), the teachers made it very clear that the word "gaijin" was not to be used to refer to anybody.

 

[AuroraSaab]

One of the youngsters I teach is called Hitto. His Mother's from Hong Kong but his Father's from Okinawa in Japan. His Dad has said that he will not allow his kid to be educated in Japan as the education system is quite brutal as well and he has refused three promotions from his Japanese employers as it'll mean heading back to Japan and the work culture.

I think they have a harsh system where if you fail your end of secondary level exams it's considered catastrophic. The pressure to do well is huge but feeds into that whole Company Man culture where people don't change jobs and give everything to the firm.

There's a lot to admire about Japanese industry - the quality control and attention to detail, emphasis on customer service - but much about their work culture is very concerning.