Amy Winehouse - Norwegians

[Riding in Circles]

While it can always be boiled down to statistics, it does not change the context and it is the context of the deaths in Norway that makes it so horrific. A lone unhinged killer attends a gathering of idealistic youth and starts shooting after setting a bomb elsewhere. It is senseless, road deaths occur over time on a daily or weekly basis, imagine the death toll of a crazy killer kicking off daily or weekly, it does not bare thinking about.

As to tying the death of a famous drug addict into this tragedy, well IMHO, it is distasteful and insulting to the victims in Norway.

 

[PBancroft]

In the past 24 hours:-

A Chinese Bullet train in a fatal crash (33)
Shooting in a US Ice Rink (6)
Amy Winehouse (1)
Oslo attacks (90+)
Nato-Afghan Raid (16 "militants")
Worldwide poverty (??)
Worldwide road deaths (??)

And many, many more worldwide. I'd have said none are more important than the other, they all have their underlying reasons as to why they occurred, and we should be saddened by each.

 

[Red Light]

While it can always be boiled down to statistics, it does not change the context and it is the context of the deaths in Norway that makes it so horrific. A lone unhinged killer attends a gathering of idealistic youth and starts shooting after setting a bomb elsewhere. It is senseless, road deaths occur over time on a daily or weekly basis, imagine the death toll of a crazy killer kicking off daily or weekly, it does not bare thinking about.

But that's the point, the equivalent of this lone killer does occurs every 6 months in Norway creating equally sudden and violent deaths equally devastating to the family and friends of those killed and it goes on year after year after year without anyone really bothering.

I just wish people would start to find road deaths something they can't bear thinking about either

 

[KEEF]

All loss of life in any circumstance is sad. I find it distasteful that people can debate which death or deaths are more worthy of attention. Our thoughts should be with all of them and the people they leave behind.

 

[Red Light]

In the past 24 hours:-

A Chinese Bullet train in a fatal crash (33)
Shooting in a US Ice Rink (6)
Amy Winehouse (1)
Oslo attacks (90+)
Nato-Afghan Raid (16 "militants")
Worldwide poverty (49,000)
Worldwide road deaths (2,700)

And many, many more worldwide. I'd have said none are more important than the other, they all have their underlying reasons as to why they occurred, and we should be saddened by each.

I completed your table for you.

 

[Red Light]

Our thoughts should be with all of them and the people they leave behind.

Yes they should be but they're not and that's the point.

 

[Andy in Sig]

But that's the point, the equivalent of this lone killer does occurs every 6 months in Norway creating equally sudden and violent deaths equally devastating to the family and friends of those killed and it goes on year after year after year without anyone really bothering.

I just wish people would start to find road deaths something they can't bear thinking about either

I have to say that I find any attempt to exploit a tragedy which others have suffered for one's own political ends to be utterly contemptible and tasteless and it exactly that in which you are indulging yourself.

It is completely false to attempt to equate road deaths with the kind of murders we have just heard about in Norway. In case you can't make the qualitative distinction, allow me to make it for you: a road death is an accident. It may be horrible and ultimately avoidable but usually it is no more than rotten luck in much the same way as a fatal accident in the home can be rotten luck.

To be a murder victim is a completely different thing because it involves someone choosing to take the life of another. Some murders are understandable. In some cases we could perhaps even think they are justified. However, the pointless, deliberate killing of a teenager has a horrific quality all of its own. The nature of a death surely contributes to the degree and time needed for the greaveing family to get over it and while we all can probably come to terms with an accidental death after a while, I suspect that to lose someone to a random murder is terribly difficult to accept.

By all means conduct a campaign about road deaths and their avoidability and I'm sure that most of us would support you in that. However, may I suggest that you resist any further attempts to exploit the Norwegian horror and in that context shove your road deaths somewhere where they are in no danger of getting a sun tan?

 

[Red Light]

I have to say that I find any attempt to exploit a tragedy which others have suffered for one's own political ends to be utterly contemptible and tasteless and it exactly that in which you are indulging yourself.

Go back and read the OP. This is a thread about how deaths are perceived in the public conciousness. We don't know how Amy Winehouse died but its unlikely to have been murder so its not a thread about murders. Its a thread about the media and public values attached to deaths whether they be deliberate or accidental. In that context its perfectly reasonable to consider the deaths that are most likely to affect us as cyclists. It would not have been appropriate to post what I did in the Oslo killing thread for the reasons you state but I don't see why you are getting so worked up about my posts in this thread and not about the original comparison of Winehouse's death with the Norwegian deaths which kicked the whole thread off.

 

[asterix]

Andy you are completely out of order. Some people are directly affected by road deaths and it is an important issue. This thread is about comparison of the way news is dealt with and so why shouldn't red light express his POV without you ranting at him?

I believe your excessive language is an attempt to suppress his POV with as little debate as possible. I also believe it is valid to debate the motivation and background of the Norwegian killer but I shan't do so here.

 

[Andy in Sig]

I've no interest whatsoever in suppressing anybody's POV. I reckon I can express my view of it though. I read and continue to read his post as an attempt to introduce a specific political issue on the back of the Norwegian incident, something which I find to be out of order, at least according to my standards. I reject any attempt at equation of the two kinds of deaths. None of that should inhibit Red Light from continuing to take that line, if he so wishes. I certainly won't respond to that argument any more. In fact, given the background to this, I think that "agree to differ" is probably the best line to take.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Everywhere I look it feels like people are more bothered about the death of Amy Winehouse who did yes waste talent and life but

how about the 92?93?94? Norwegians who have died,

I'm certain there's much more talent gone to waste there as most of the dead were innocent youths
I just feel its wrong someone who devoted her life to drink and drugs (her choice) appears to me important
While these people did nothing to deserve there fate

All of this is sad, I hate how the bad seems to outweigh the good and people lose and waste there lives because of a certain few or certain things

Rant over . . . . . .

I do not for a moment believe that Amys death is of greater significance than the tragic loss of life in Norway. The think is many people knew Amy through her music and the press as well as those who knew her in person. In that way alone her death hits more people than 94+ lives that most of us do not know. All loss of life is tragic but some lives have a greater impact on people than others - Princess Diana for example was just one person but her death brought the country to a virtual standstill.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

And the tragedy there is that it wasn't used to promote road safety.

I think there was so much conspiracy theory around the event that even if it had it would have been lost in the morass.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yes, sadly I think that you are right there.

Sometimes being right is no fun at all.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Life can't be all fun.

Amen to that.

 

[The One That Got Away]

I do not for a moment believe that Amys death is of greater significance than the tragic loss of life in Norway. The think is many people knew Amy through her music and the press as well as those who knew her in person. In that way alone her death hits more people than 94+ lives that most of us do not know. All loss of life is tragic but some lives have a greater impact on people than others - Princess Diana for example was just one person but her death brought the country to a virtual standstill.

Yes I do agree with your points there I do understand how it is easier to get to terms with the death of someone we "knew"

I just felt yesterday that it was tragic to see so many RIP Amy blah blah blah while I saw maybe one in 20 posts about the unfortunate unjust taking of life in Norway, on Facebook and such sites.
What really got to me when I saw a little news flash on BBC 3 saying how Main news today was the death of Amy and no mention of Norway, now I know people will say what about the Africans, car crashes and so on but I felt people needed to know about Norway as I think the day it happened they only thought something like 10 at the most people had died and it was not till the day after where it was found 90+ had died.
Though I do now realise that it is fair that we can't judge what's more important, whose life/lives should hit the headlines and was a stupid post really as there is not a real right and wrong,

But may I say with Diana she did help with charity's and so on and was a decent roll model? She was a tragic loss while with Amy she was not a roll model and her path of drugs and drink was "wrong" but she had the right to do what she did with her life and its perfectly fine with me how she wanted to live her life but in my opinion she didn't live life to the full and enjoy it as much as she could, and didn't Amy take her own life? or and accident with overdose or something of that nature that was her choice while the Norwegians, Africans it wasn't there choice that they died in the way they did and for Africans are.