And the Nobel prize for literature goes to ...

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smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
Hmmmm..... Who to believe? A former Big Brother contestant or a man regarded by Allen Ginsberg as an important poetic voice?

FTFY

If you don't know who Michael Horovitz is, you really should do some research before dismissing the worth of his opinion, otherwise you're in danger of making yourself look ignorant.
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
When someone sets themselves up as a connoisseur of what is and isn't 'leaden' in poetry, and then calls Horovitz some random bloke from the newspapers, it's just a tad amusing, yes.

No, I did actually mean to include everyone involved in the discussion. There are all kinds of elitisms at play here, some which genuinely think they are populisms, some of which are ignorant, some of which are entirely phoney, some which are hypocritical, and some which are unapologetic (and combinations thereof). But they all all elitisms. And it's interesting to see how they collide. At least to me.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
FTFY

If you don't know who Michael Horovitz is, you really should do some research before dismissing the worth of his opinion, otherwise you're in danger of making yourself look ignorant.
Oh for heaven's sake. I was taking the piss out of User's lofty dismissals from earlier in the thread. It was a joke.
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
Oh for heaven's sake. I was taking the piss out of User's lofty dismissals from earlier in the thread. It was a joke.

Well, it went right over my head!

Fwiw, and I don't know if this affects @Flying_Monkey's assessment of where I fall on the elitism spectrum, but the reference to Germaine Greer's Big Brother appearance was a cheap rhetorical reversal. I'm not actually judging the value of her piece on Dylan's lyrics by the fact that she appeared on Big Brother. That would be silly. As would giving her views credence just because she holds a Cambridge professorship. But I guess you know that already.
 
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I've just found it.....

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Whatever colors you have in your mind
I'll show them to you and you'll see them shine.

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Stay, lady, stay, stay with your man awhile
Until the break of day, let me see you make him smile
His clothes are dirty but his hands are clean
And you're the best thing that he's ever seen.

Stay, lady, stay, stay with your man awhile
Why wait any longer for the world to begin
You can have your cake and eat it too
Why wait any longer for the one you love
When he's standing in front of you.

Lay, lady, lay, lay across my big brass bed
Stay, lady, stay, stay while the night is still ahead
I long to see you in the morning light
I long to reach for you in the night
Stay, lady, stay, stay while the night is still ahead.
.....
But what about....


William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll
With a cane that he twirled around his diamond ring finger
At a Baltimore hotel society gathering
And the cops were called in and his weapon took from him
As they rode him in custody down to the station
And booked William Zanzinger for first-degree murder
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
William Zanzinger, who at twenty-four years
Owns a tobacco farm of six hundred acres
With rich wealthy parents who provide and protect him
And high office relations in the politics of Maryland
Reacted to his deed with a shrug of his shoulders
And swear words and sneering, and his tongue it was snarling
In a matter of minutes, on bail was out walking
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
Hattie Carroll was a maid in the kitchen
She was fifty-one years old and gave birth to ten children
Who carried the dishes and took out the garbage
And never sat once at the head of the table
And didn't even talk to the people at the table
Who just cleaned up all the food from the table
And emptied the ashtrays on a whole other level
Got killed by a blow, lay slain by a cane
That sailed through the air and came down through the room
Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle
And she never done nothing to William Zanzinger
And you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Take the rag away from your face
Now ain't the time for your tears
In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel
To show that all's equal and that the courts are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded
And that even the nobles get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em
And that the ladder of law has no top and no bottom
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warnin'
And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance
William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence
Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears
 

craigwend

Grimpeur des terrains plats
BREAKING NEWS!!!

The Swedish Committee are clearly on a theme this year as the Nobel Prize for Chemistry has jest been awarded to Keith Richards...
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Profpointy

Legendary Member
Exactly. They work as songs. And I love 'Lay Lady Lay' as a song, but I wouldn't call the lyrics great (or even good) literature.

Ooo I dunno. Vaguely knew the song but having read it above it works as poetry - maybe better as poetry. Conjures up the joy of being newly in love and you can't quite believe she's there
 
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