Andy Schleck

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oldroadman

Veteran
Location
Ubique
If you can't descend properly then life as a pro has little future. in order to win ( or just do the job well) there sometimes have to be risks taken, calculated, but risks just the same. The way to learn is, if possible, get on the wheel of a good descender and follow at 10-20 metres, using lines and braking points as markers. You soon learn, and if you are not a strong climber, it's how you get back into the fray to do your job for the team.
Sorry Mr S, it may be time to hang up the wheels, at least as a pro.
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
Can't speak for Delgado (I don't have enough miles on the counter to have seen him riding) but I wouldn't put Sastre and Contador in the same list. I would actually put Sastre and Schleck in the same group, in my opinion they are both climbing specialists (who will both loose a lot of time in a TT).

Sastre was a poor TTer who turned himself into a good one - in fact, he dedicated himself to training very specifically and very hard to improving his performance in time trials, which is something you can never imagine Schleck doing. That level of dedication is perhaps the main factor that separates true GC contenders from the rest. Just look at Wiggins last year.

But maybe, my problem is that I don't quite understand your definition of a GC contender. Since I would put Rodriguez and VDB also in the same group as Schleck. They (unfortunately) are a bit too weak in TT to be a (multiple-)TdF threat.

That's precisely why I mentioned Rodriguez and VDB - both are often talked of as GC contenders but neither have ever looked really likely to fulfil that promise. Yes, I would put them in the same bracket as Schleck for that reason. Rodriguez came very close in the Giro last year but was always going to lose time to Hesjedal in the final time trial. And again in Tirreno-Adriatico on Monday, he was part of the very select attack that won the stage in magnificent fashion but lost his podium place in the final time trial.


Personaly I would put Armstrong, Contador, Ullrich, Indurain, Wiggins, Evans in a same category (you could make this list sooo much longer of course), which is "all-rounders" (the difference in their results are just depending on exactly how strong their climbing and/or TT is compared to their respective contendors of that time).

Of current riders, I would say there are very few genuine GC contenders - Contador, Froome, Nibali, Wiggins, Hesjedal.

Evans and Basso appear to be over the hill. Gesink and Mollema always flatter to deceive (but are still young enough that they may yet come good). Voeckler ought to be but won't apply himself. Chavanel certainly applies himself but just isn't quite good enough. And then you've got the young upstarts like Vangarderen and Talansky who are thrilling talents but maybe aren't quite there yet...

Anyone else I've forgotten?

[Edit: just remembered Tony Martin, who is the anti-Schleck - phenomenal talent in TTs but always loses time in the big climbs.]

[And Brajkovic - another nearly man.]

I would put people like earlier-mentioned-Sastre, Schleck, Pantani, Rodriguez ... as climbing specialists. Which doesn't mean they can't win the grand tours, but they just have to be climb very strong in the full tour, have the balls to attack from far away and (sometimes) have the brain to decide to focus on the Giro or Vuelta instead of the Tour de France.

Yes, Pantani is another who was never really a genuine GC contender. These riders do win the occasional GT but rarely more than one.

And I guess the other way around will never work: people like Cancellara, Boardman, Martin will always loose too much time in the mountains.

And why Peter Sagan is going to win lots and lots and lots of one-off bike races but probably never a GT (though I see a lot of Sean Kelly in him and wonder if he might reinvent himself as a GC contender when he hits his 30s - which is still a long way off, let's not forget!)
 

smutchin

Cat 6 Racer
Location
The Red Enclave
IIRC Contador struggled that day, constantly adjusting his position on the bike, and fell weeping into the arms of Vino (!) upon finishing. He then had a moan about the information coming from the car having been told that he was behind and losing the tour.

That sounds vaguely familiar now you mention it.

Contador's victories in grand tours (with the exception of TdF 2009 and Giro 2011) have often been by the skin of his teeth. For all his (deserved) dodgy reputation he does not dominate in anything like the manner of Armstrong and Indurain.

His win in the Vuelta last year was as much due to his tactical genius as anything else. Something Froome showed himself to be short of in that race, and which Schleck has never had (in fact, Schleck is reputed to be a bit of a thicko generally). A great racing brain is another factor that sets the true contenders apart. Nibali isn't the very best in any single discipline but has a great racing brain.

d.
 
OP
OP
Noodley

Noodley

Guest
It sounds as if the politician's intention were not dishonourable,and that he regrets making it public - chapeau to him for admitting his error. Anyway, I think it's time for Andy to take a long, if not permanent, rest from the pro peloton for his own benefit - it sounds as if he needs to get his head sorted out, irrespective of why he is riding so badly. He needs to be honest with himself, if not others.
 

raindog

er.....
Location
France
To be honest, I was surprised when the Shack carried on this year.

Talking of which, when is The Hogg's "hearing" due?
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I'm feeling increasingly sorry for Andy Schleck. It's quite obvious he's suffering from some psychological problems. Given what happened to Marco Pantani and others who went downhill fast when they lost their form or retired, I think it might be a bit more compassionate if people eased up on the insults, even if you aren't a fan.
 

redcard

Veteran
Location
Paisley
I'm feeling increasingly sorry for Andy Schleck. It's quite obvious he's suffering from some psychological problems. Given what happened to Marco Pantani and others who went downhill fast when they lost their form or retired, I think it might be a bit more compassionate if people eased up on the insults, even if you aren't a fan.

Let's ban negative opinions. Apart from MPs and paedos - they're still fair game!
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
I thought criticising superstar athletes made one a bad person?

It was Sagan, then it was Andy. Next you'll be organising a cookie party for Rio Ferdinand ;)

It was just that your post didn't really make any sense. And I am still not sure what you are talking about.
 
I was rather put off by his arrogance in 2011 when he and Frank were convinced they'd win, but the spirit he showed against Contador in the mountains in 2010 made for a good race and I too feel rather sorry for the guy. I also remember his descent after losing that 39 seconds! But, I can't help thinking he is probably at the end of the line as far as a GC contender and if he comes back, like others have implied, he may have to settle for the mountains, which won't be easy with some of the talent out there - both established and up and coming.
 
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