Any artists out there?

[swee'pea99]

More specifically, artists who draw? I'd appreciate any advice you can offer on buying pens and ink. I'd like to get some for my daughter for Christmas, but I haven't the first idea where to start. Thanks.

 

[Over The Hill]

Firstly if she is left handed then she needs left handed pens (really they are different).

Beyond that perhaps best to get a ready made set with a few types in and she can see which she likes best rather than a better quality with no selection.

If it is for drawing with ink then also consider brushes to use with ink that is also a lovely medium to use.

Head for a decent art shop if you can.

 

[Aperitif]

I always prefer a 2B pencil to draw as it offers a steady weight of line. A good quality pencil sharpener is a worthwhile purchase, along with the discipline of keeping the pencil sharp. Obviously pencils come in different grades, from a dart to a smudge 6H to 8B - something like that. (A tip might be to think of drawing hard objects with a hard pencil and soft objects with a soft one...but a 2B will do!) Faber Castell 9000 range - the green ones are my preferred.
Pens? I like to use a Pilot G Tec C4 for the consistent line and quality 'feel' - but there are many 'exact' pens on the market. A Pilot pens website will probably have loads of fab. pens that I have never heard of! @threebikesmcginty is a bit of a pen buff, and I'm sure His Nibs will be along in the morning with a bit of advice for a good quality buy.
More free-form stuff - Gillots do a selection of nibs (303 for me + some decent ink) for dipping in a bottle of ink...dippennibs.co.uk is a site that has the range. Pelikan ink?
Lots of 'fountain pen' drawing options too - but the ink must be suitable for a reservoir fill.
After all that, the choice of paper is important. Smooth stuff like Bristol Board for the pen and ink business, and it is a bit of a trial and error business with a surface for pencil (don't forget the compressed charcoal and graphite sticks too - and the conté crayons!)
I'm left-handed, but have managed with right-handed pencils for a few years.
Decent white Faber eraser, and perhaps a putty rubber to introduce a bit of je ne sais quoi to charcoal (another thing - get good charcoal...this can be sprayed with 'fixative' (hair lacquer was cheap!) and then over drawn, for a denser black finish...
Rambling now - your daughter will have a blast, SP - make sure she doesn't start by drawing her lines too heavily, and it's good to leave the 'wrong' (lightly drawn ) ones in place...ie leave the eraser alone!
I'll add a 'heads up' for my friend Andy @arallsopp here. One of the most accomplished artists I know, he will have the ultimate in sensitive advice, I'm sure.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I can't really recommend pen and ink stuff but if you want pencils a Rotring propelling is good, a proper old metal one, you might have to buy one second-hand as I'm not sure they make them any more, johnthemonkey (is he still about?) put me onto the Shorty which is a lovely piece of kit, here's a link, good site for info anyway.

http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/Worther-Shorty-Pencil.html

 

[swee'pea99]

Thanks very much. The stubby pencil looks good, but I already got her one of those - or at least, a revolving pencil. Following up the suggestions, I've found myself looking at 'junior' sets of rotring Isographs - three pens and some cartridges - but now 'er indores has started having second thoughts, so I'm not sure how it'll all end up. But many thanks for the tips.

 

[MontyVeda]

my design teacher warned us against the rotring isographs as, according to her, they tend to block up... better performance can be achieved via a much less expensive fine nibbed pen type thing.

 

[swee'pea99]

my design teacher warned us against the rotring isographs as, according to her, they tend to block up... better performance can be achieved via a much less expensive fine nibbed pen type thing.

Interesting...thanks for that. I'll definitely bear that in mind.

 

[arallsopp]

Cheers for the nudge, @Aperitif.

I can only really answer from my own experience, but will give it a go.

Firstly, has your daughter expressed a particular interest in pen + ink? Pens can be pretty unforgiving (hard to erase without a scalpel, easy to smudge). A nice pen is a joy forever, but one that becomes 'too precious' to use is as good as useless. If she’s at the point where she’s scratching around with biros and every sheet of photocopy paper in your house is blackened, a nice pen set might well be a good move. Worth grabbing some quality paper too, as its all about how one flows over the other.

Are there particular artists she is looking at? What medium do they use? Is she looking towards technical illustration (scales and straight edges), scratchy freeform spontaneous sketches, detailed cross-hatching (etch style)? Each will have its own set, but you can get surprisingly far with a bottle of ink, a good wash brush, and a decent black pen.

Alternatively, she may be looking towards a colouring set. I don’t know her age or her interests, sorry.

Whatever you settle for, try to buy at least 10 of them. That way, they don't seem precious, and she can experiment more. Whatever age she is, she’s likely to improve best when she can take a chance. I still have untouched paint sets that were too costly to toy with. As a result, they’ve been the least effective purchase I’ve made.

With my niece of 10 years, I’ve discovered the best approach is to buy her a “proper” art pad, then buy another and give her the pages loose as a “oh, I also had these odd bits of paper. They’re roughly the same size.” Go and see her 6 months later, and every loose sheet has been drawn all over, whilst the pad has only a beautiful (but stalled) drawing on the first page.

Sorry. Making any sense at all?

Edit: Ah.. Now I remember: http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs29/i/2009/254/b/e/still_going_by_arallsopp.jpg

 

[Aperitif]

I wanted* you to post the Deviant Art link, Andy - thank you!

*yeh yeh...

 

[rich p]

Does @threebikesmcginty pen and ink?

 

[Archie_tect]

SP, my five penn'orth....

Unless your daughter is drawing, sketching and scribbling all the time already anyway, this may well just be a passing interest, so go easy on the costs to start with...how old is she?

I wouldn't bother with drawing pen sets, particularly technical drawing pens like Rotring Isographs as the ink is permanent and messy. As architecture students we weren't allowed pens until we were in second year to teach us pencil skills. Ink is over rated.

Get a Cartridge paper spiral bound sketch book, or better still, simply a 500 sheet ream of A4 paper is as good as anything from a stationer suppliers [Staples are very reasonable for all you might need as a start-up... their costs are manageable- avoid arty craft-shops as their mark-up is ridiculous] but make sure the paper is a a smooth 90 gramme or 'heavier'. Agree with others about a white plastic eraser [Faber Castell or Rotring are fine]

Faber Castell or Caran D'Ache colouring pencils are really good as you can get a basic 12 pencil set [I still use them for presentation stuff] from which she can experiment with shading and mixing colours to create every shade you can think of... there's no need to have a 72 pencil set to 'get' the right colour! Blending colours is an important lesson in itself. Also Caran D'Ache make water soluble colouring pencils so she can start experimenting with watercolour techniques too but you need heavier 120 gramme paper for that to stop it crinkling when it's wet.

Sketching pencils and stubby graphite sticks are good fun, charcoal is too messy until she can control her sketching... drawing's fun and anyone can draw, they just don't try.

A nice present would be one of the little wooden figures with moveable joints so she can set up poses to draw realistic people in proportion.

 

[Aperitif]

Does @threebikesmcginty pen and ink?

I expect @threebikesmcginty has awful draws sometimes.

 

[Aperitif]

A nice present would be one of the little wooden figures with moveable joints so she can set up poses to draw realistic people in proportion.

If anyone wants to know what @threebikesmcginty looks like - here's your chance...
This is his 'coming back from the pub' pose.

 

[swee'pea99]

Cheers for the nudge, @Aperitif.

I can only really answer from my own experience, but will give it a go.

Firstly, has your daughter expressed a particular interest in pen + ink?

I wouldn't say so. She is, in my view, a highly talented artist who hasn't settled on any one medium yet. She draws, she paints, she models. My instinct (as someone with zero artistic talent) is that a well-honed skill at drawing will give her a good foundation for whatever art she progresses to. I've bought her a copy of a book called How to Draw in Pen & Ink by a bloke called Harry Furniss (highly recommended in a novel by one of my favourite writers) and was looking to give her it this Christmas, along with the necessary tools.

Pens can be pretty unforgiving (hard to erase without a scalpel, easy to smudge). A nice pen is a joy forever, but one that becomes 'too precious' to use is as good as useless. If she’s at the point where she’s scratching around with biros and every sheet of photocopy paper in your house is blackened, a nice pen set might well be a good move. Worth grabbing some quality paper too, as its all about how one flows over the other.

I wouldn't plan to get her anything 'too precious to use' - as you say, that would kind of defeat the object. But I would like to get her 'a joy forever' - and I think she's of an age and temperament to value and care for one appropriately.

Are there particular artists she is looking at? What medium do they use? Is she looking towards technical illustration (scales and straight edges), scratchy freeform spontaneous sketches, detailed cross-hatching (etch style)? Each will have its own set, but you can get surprisingly far with a bottle of ink, a good wash brush, and a decent black pen.

Alternatively, she may be looking towards a colouring set. I don’t know her age or her interests, sorry. She's 14, and like I say, generally reckoned to be pretty talented (she got into The Prince's School, eg, with no problem, and also special days at the national Portrait Gallery.) I don't think she's particularly hung up on any specific artist or style...like I say, this is at least partly an exercise in helping her find one.

Whatever you settle for, try to buy at least 10 of them. That way, they don't seem precious, and she can experiment more. Whatever age she is, she’s likely to improve best when she can take a chance. I still have untouched paint sets that were too costly to toy with. As a result, they’ve been the least effective purchase I’ve made. Sounds good advice. I'd like to buy her a set of pens that she can experiment with/play around with.

With my niece of 10 years, I’ve discovered the best approach is to buy her a “proper” art pad, then buy another and give her the pages loose as a “oh, I also had these odd bits of paper. They’re roughly the same size.” Go and see her 6 months later, and every loose sheet has been drawn all over, whilst the pad has only a beautiful (but stalled) drawing on the first page.

Sorry. Making any sense at all? Loads. Many thanks.

Edit: Ah.. Now I remember: http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs29/i/2009/254/b/e/still_going_by_arallsopp.jpg

Many thanks for your response. I've tried to respond to your points above. I guess what I'd like is one or more pens that would be really satisfying to use, and that would help her take her time and study nature, to quote the Furniss book.

 

[Aperitif]

Try and lay hands on a copy of this - I was inspired...and I still have my copy!

and this one - also inspiring.