Any Police Officers on here?

[Headgardener]

Some interesting replies as when discussing this with the police officer, I maintained that as far possible I had my dog under control. The police told me that I didn't have him well enough under control if it was possible for him to fight another dog. And then we went around in circles with me asking what defines an under control/dangerously out of control dog and repeating that if the other owners had exercised any control at all that there would not have been a fight in the first place.

I was also told that during the second fight (not sbt), the person walking the dog was not the owner (it was a professional dog walker), and the reason the dog did not respond to recall was that it was hard of hearing. At which point I sarcastically asked "and you think I'm being irresponsible?"

I do try, though it's not always possible, to turn away and escape.

I suspect the reason the police were then involved was that both the other dogs had to go to the vet and incurred a bill (it wasn't immediately obvious at the time), I had to take mine as he was kicked in his hips by the dog walker (for which I incurred a bill). Both parties believe I'm liable for the vets bill. I may have been willing to discuss paying half had I been approached (I'm well insured on the dog front), but having had the police involved and been wound up the wrong way I refuse to consider contributing anything at all.

I just keep him away from other dogs and walk early in the morning/late in the evening now so as to avoid giving anyone any reason to complain at all.

Sound like you need to talk to the RSPCA as this could be classed as cruelty. Also if it was the "pofessional" dog walker that commited this assult then they should have some kind of public liabilty insurance anyway. I know some professional dog walkers and not one of them would assult another dog no matter what the circumstances.

 

[purplepolly]

No, you're doing a bad job by keeping him on the lead all the time. When other dogs go up to him, because he's on a lead he feels threatened because there's nowhere for him to go, a bit like being pinned in.

I was going to say the same thing myself.

Also try examining your own reactions to other dogs. If you're reacting negatively and seeing them as a 'threat' then you dog will certainly pick up on this, he may even be trying to defend you.

If you really don't trust him off the lead, why not try to ignore the other dog (strange dogs are less likely to approach if ignored) and distract yours. As a last resort you could take a distraction like a waterspray or electric dog repeller or airzound and quickly retreat, but they're probably only effective before a fight starts.

 

[NutSack]

Right, I have no idea what the PC involved said to you but words of advice are just that, nothing more nothing less, you are not being reported at this point so its totally up to you as to what you do with that advice. It doesn't necesarily mean you have done anything wrong, sometimes we dish them out just because we believe it may be in the persons best interests, but in these circumstances (from what I have read here) I'm not sure what they are trying to say.

It seems to me that you are being a responsible dog owner and doing all you can to maintain control of your animal. It is [from what I have read] quite clearly in the other owners' best interests to keep a tighter level of control over their dogs, especially a 'professional' dog walker who should know better, as it has been proven their dog does not recall when required to do so.

For the record when I was a teenager still living with my parents we had a German Shepherd that was pure evil to other dogs who got within his comfort zone, whilst they were running around he didn't give a monkeys but as soon as they went sniff his @r5e he would go ballistic. Its safe to say he never came off the lead and always wore a muzzle in public but you would always get others who would let their dogs run up to him saying "Its ok, shes alright with other dogs" and me trying in vain to tell them mine wasn't, even with a muzzle he would put the frighteners into other dogs and without fail the other owner would be cursing at me

This post isn't legal advice, and neither is it advice made in a police capacity, but the way I see it is if any damage is caused to the other dog then it would be a crazy or over-confident barrister to go with it at court if the other dog was off the lead and not returning when called. That being said a witness would be advantageous on your behalf to seal it. I really can't see it going to court, even less so if you used a muzzle, but these things do happen.

 

[snapper_37]

I have a dog who I know is ok with other dogs BUT if we see other dogs in her 'space' I immediately put her lead on because I know she will run to them to want to play and I don't know how they will feel about that. Simple basics:

1. I don't know the other dog's history - mine is a rescue and I don't know her's either although so far, so good.
2. I believe it is a legal requirement to have a dog on the lead if you believe it could be aggressive OR NOT to other dogs. It is a legal requirement to have a dog muzzled if it IS aggresive. Just my opinion btw - I'm sure someone may correct me if wrong.
3. Some dogs are ok with some dogs and not with others - you just never know so it's just a wise move to leash them. Example - bitches ok with dogs but not with bitches.
4. Some dogs on a lead are very intimidated by dogs off a lead - for obvious reasons.
4. It's just common sense - something some other dog owners just do not have ... as there could be a kid around the corner.

Aside from all the legal tangle - the owner had no right to kick your dog and if it was me, I would seek advice. Apart from kicking him in the bollocks of course

 

[xpc316e]

I think that you are doing the right thing. I used to have two Weimaraners, both of which were as soft as grease. One was very sociable and had to introduce herself to every other dog, while the other one was timid. I used to walk them mostly off the lead in a large country park and one day the sociable one was attacked by another dog. Thereafter she was still very friendly, but used to pile in at the slightest hint of aggression from other dogs, and she was a big, strong dog. I then walked her on a leash while wearing a fabric muzzle. The muzzle was counter-productive in that other owners usually assumed she was going to be the aggressor in any situation. I ended up having her put down as I could not enjoy walking a dog that was a liability. It was a very difficult decision to make, but dogs should not be about aggression.

 

[snapper_37]

I could not enjoy walking a dog that was a liability. It was a very difficult decision to make, but dogs should not be about aggression.

Just a question not a judgement. If you had a dog that was muzzled and therefore safe - why was it a liability and why have it put down?

 

[purplepolly]

3. Some dogs are ok with some dogs and not with others - you just never know so it's just a wise move to leash them. Example - bitches ok with dogs but not with bitches.

We had a male border terrier years ago that was fine with bitches, puppies / adolescents and other borders but he was aggressive towards all grown males of other breeds.

 

[snapper_37]

We had a male border terrier years ago that was fine with bitches, puppies / adolescents and other borders but he was aggressive towards all grown males of other breeds.

My point. Dogs - phhahhhh, you never know with them so keep them secure until you let them meet other dogs/kids/animal/humans - whatever.

 

[snorri]

No, you're doing a bad job by keeping him on the lead all the time.
Dogs that are always on the lead never get to learn how to socialise.

That is quite dreadful advice and shows a lack of consideration for other people, dogs should always be on a lead in a public space. I don't want to have to "socialise" with free running dogs when I am out and about on foot or bicycle.

 

[MichaelM]

In my OP I tried to lay out the bare bones of what happened. I was hoping a PC might answer as yesterdays discussion seemed to revolve around the term "dangerously out of control."

I'm not imaginative enough to make up believable lies, though when I said she kicked him in the hips, maybe I should have said she kicked him in his back end. There's no way she could have known he has arthritis and so kicked his hips deliberately. He did start to limp again though the next day having not had any problems for approx two months.

He does behave differently off lead, I know this from dog training classes, and he is far more sociable off lead. I also know that he will run off for an good sniiff around - the dog trainer has a field that is fenced in. If I did have him off lead in public and he were to run up to someone - I would then be the one with a dog that is intimidating people, and I realise that I'm probably doing wrong for trying to do right.

I called the PC back today, going around in circles again and out sheer frustration I asked (this only came to mind on tonights ride) what, if any criminal act had been commited. Her answer was: "None yet." The significance of that has only just dawned on me.

I had been of the opinion that she came around with intention of trying to intimidate me in some way, realising this I'm now even more convinced of it.

Oh and it's a public area -there are dog bins dotted around.

I'll most probably conitinue to avoid certain people. He's happy as Larry with the other two:

 

[purplepolly]

dogs should always be on a lead in a public space. I don't want to have to "socialise" with dogs when I am out and about on foot or bicycle.

The other day I was heading towards 2 blokes and a spaniel on a shared path. They got the dog to sit off the side of the path, stood in front of it and threw a ball behind the dog as I went past. I would have stopped to admire their training technique but that would have been counter-productive.

Most dogs*, even the more stupid breeds, are perfectly capable of being trained when young to ignore people/cyclists and come when called, if their owners put a bit of effort in. Older rescue dogs are more of a problem though.

* but probably excepting dangerous breeds as favoured on chav estates

 

[snapper_37]

He does behave differently off lead, I know this from dog training classes, and he is far more sociable off lead. I also know that he will run off for an good sniiff around - the dog trainer has a field that is fenced in. If I did have him off lead in public and he were to run up to someone - I would then be the one with a dog that is intimidating people, and I realise that I'm probably doing wrong for trying to do right.

Michael, he looks like a lovely dog but to some he looks like an aggresive dog. It is an intimidating looking dog - not his fault btw. It's just the way it is.

You need to crack on with the training because YOU are the Pack 1st, Alpha Male, whatever ... not your dog.

In our first training session there was an Akita who was really aggressive, as was a Rotty .. BUT with training and love and fuss off other dogs and owners they are now lovely. It scared the shoot out of us - but they were muzzled and I believe (this is just me) - any dog that has not been abused to be aggresive is just scared.

I am sure Crackle will pick up on this thread too.

It will happen. Good luck.

 

[snapper_37]

* but probably excepting dangerous breeds as favoured on chav estates

Don't agree purple.

They are dangerous because they are made dangerous. Some twats wants their dog to be nasty.

Not in all cases sure, but I know a Westie, a Jack Russell and a Yorkie who will try to take my dog out any time.

Is it just the size then?

 

[purplepolly]

YOU are the Pack 1st, Alpha Male, whatever ... not your dog.
.

Michael
Uhm, just a thought, but if it's really a problem have you thought about him having the snip?

 

[Crankarm]

As I say I am not really a dog fan coming from the runner in the park and cyclist perspective, but your dogs looked well cared for and trained. If I saw you in the park I run around, your dogs on leads, behaving themselves I would not be frightened or intimidated as I am by the many others who let their dogs loose to jump up, scratch or nip you. You seem like a very responsible dog owner. So I am on your side. I would give you a hearty hello and a thank you if you got them to sit as I passed by on foot or by bike as a few dog owners do. Sadly you are in the minority of dog owners in my experience. They do look nice dogs, but how many kids shine up nice for their school mugshot?

I would make a note in your diary of the police officer's conversations with you. I would seriously consider taking a camera with you when you next go out with your dogs what ever time you choose. It is surprising how people buck their ideas up when being filmed. As it is a public place you are free to take pictures. I would check if there are any signs requiring dogs to be on a lead. Take a pic of it. Such signs in my park have been vandalised or disappeared, some dog owners might be behind this......