Too dangerous because of all the kangaroos crossing the roads?
You only need to read @frank9755 account of riding in Australia during the Indepac to see how horrific cycling in Australia can be,
Anyone ever considered moving abroad for the better cycling experience?
- Thread starter Welsh wheels
- Start date
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You only need to read @frank9755 account of riding in Australia during the Indepac to see how horrific cycling in Australia can be,
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is a disaster
Netherlands is great for utility cycling, although not without the problems of less than perfect infrastructure and other road users to deal with (including a huge number of sub-par cyclists). There is also a huge problem with theft and even finding somewhere to park a bike with enforcement from Fiets Stewards. As a sport cyclist or wielrennen, you are obliged to use the infrastructure provided, sometimes this is not suitable for 30 km/h speeds or dangerous because of overcrowding with pissed up students cycling along with a phone in one hand, an umbrella in the other and their mate on the back.I love the cycling culture of the Netherlands an it is a joy to participate, but like everywhere, nothing is perfect and other people can spoil it for you just as I can spoil it for other people.
- Location
- London
mm - on balance I think I'd much prefer the vastly imperfect UK scene, which is improving all the time, - don't like the thought of being told where to cycle at all and I quite often find cyclists in London more of a menace than drivers - I often avoid even good cycling infrastructure.
The bicycle is (responsible) freedom for me.
(I had in the back of my mind that you could be forced to use cycle infrastructure in the Netherlands. Ditto Germany?)
The bicycle is (responsible) freedom for me.
(I had in the back of my mind that you could be forced to use cycle infrastructure in the Netherlands. Ditto Germany?)
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
An interesting post, as a utility and touring cyclist I'd never been aware of the negatives you see as a sport cyclistDon't get me wrong, I am not saying it is a disaster
.I am all three, but crucially also a grumpy sod that likes perfection.An interesting post, as a utility and touring cyclist I'd never been aware of the negatives you see as a sport cyclist
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
All three? You're spreading yourself too thinly, no wonder you're grumpy
.
matticus
Guru
Anywhere except motorways and footpaths. (broadly speaking). :P
I think that Belgium France and Spain also sometimes compel you. So probably others too! But each has it's quirks, and exceptions (like groups of "training cyclists" are OK in Belgium, I think?). I believe it's very difficult to be prosecuted.
Belgium is the only country where the locals have moaned at me (at 3am! On a deserted urban road!!) I'm, no expert on any of these jurisdictions. As you can tell ...
avecReynolds531
Veteran
- Location
- Small Island
+ 1
I'm all three too.
Nearly 20 years ago, we once made the mistake of cycling along a busy Dutch road and couldn't work out what all the car horn tooting was about. We'd failed to see the cycle path adjacent (behind a bank) and failed to know that we were required to use the path.
Belgium has been less restrictive than the Netherlands - in our experience - regarding where you can ride, especially for sports riders. We saw many groups/ clubs out on the roads & at a scary level - there would be no way I'd keep up with them.
+ 1
HMS_Dave
Grand Old Lady
The dutch are about 3 decades ahead of us on cycling infrastructure, we are in the infancy of adopting it as legitimate transport. Which is why i vote to stay and fight for good infrastructure here rather than move for it. It is possible and the optimist in me thinks it will happen if we fight for it.
BigMeatball
Senior Member
I thought that would be the case about the netherlands. good for commuters, shite for hobbists.
Nothing better than a deserted road in the british countryside then, where you can ride right in the middle of the road without anyone ever bothering you
Nothing better than a deserted road in the british countryside then, where you can ride right in the middle of the road without anyone ever bothering you
chriswoody
Legendary Member
- Location
- Northern Germany
Here in Germany, you're not really forced to use the infrastructure, however, in towns, you'd be daft not too. On the whole it's well thought through, not just a blob of random paint on the road that leads nowhere. We also have specific cycling traffic lights in areas where it's heavy traffic or complex junctions and you can be fined if caught not obeying it. You'll even receive points on your driving license.
When riding through town, your sharing the space with a lot of other cyclists and need to accept that you can't ride too fast. Some of the segregated paths are also shared with pedestrians, so you need to pay attention and ride appropriately. At the end of the day, my town riding is limited to running errands or commuting, so the slower pace is really no issue.
Outside of town, there are a number of places with segregated bike tracks shadowing main roads. They are generally well paved and pleasant to use, however, you will find slower cyclists on there as well as the odd scooter rider. Road cyclist's looking to ride fast often choose to ignore these tracks and ride on the roads and it's here that it can get a little hairy, out of town, German drivers can be quite fast and aggressive in their driving, not quite as bad as I've experienced in Britian, but still not pleasant.
snorri
Legendary Member
- Location
- East coast, up a bit.
I've never felt "forced" to use cycle infrastructure in NL or DE, it was always my prefered option, there was no need for any threat of prosecution
.DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
But at least you’d have been offered several iPhones to make up for it!
BigMeatball
Senior Member
HobbesOnTour
Guru
- Location
- España
The grass on the other side is greener....
It's quite easy to look favourably on foreign infrastructure and prefer it, especially when on holidays
As to the OP, I found that close passes freaked me out simply because I was not in control. All of a sudden something would pass me, shocking me and making me intensely aware of my vulnerability.
I rectified that with a mirror - much easier to be aware of who was coming up behind me. It really added to my cycling enjoyment.
The ironic thing was that that was in NL and the close passes came from guys (nearly always guys) racing their bikes!
I wouldn't move to a country simply for cycling but it would be a factor in wherever I do chose to live ( currently of no fixed abode as they say).
I love cycling in France - but I don't think I could live there!
I lived in NL for 20 years and the cycling structure is fantastic! But it's not for everyone.
Rush hour in a big, old city like Amsterdam can be a nightmare - Rotterdam on the other hand is much better.
The country is mainly flat, can be boring and headwinds can be ..... fun
It is really set up for utility cycling rather than road or racing. I'd imagine trying to chase down segments can get very frustrating on busy cycle paths.
However, I do recall leaving work at 6 am facing into a 21km commute after about 20cm of snow falling and being amazed that the cycle paths were cleared of snow before the roads!
By the way, the Dutch have such a good infrastructure because of foresight but there was huge amounts of conflict back in the sixties when infrastructure started going in.
It's quite easy to look favourably on foreign infrastructure and prefer it, especially when on holidays
As to the OP, I found that close passes freaked me out simply because I was not in control. All of a sudden something would pass me, shocking me and making me intensely aware of my vulnerability.
I rectified that with a mirror - much easier to be aware of who was coming up behind me. It really added to my cycling enjoyment.
The ironic thing was that that was in NL and the close passes came from guys (nearly always guys) racing their bikes!
I wouldn't move to a country simply for cycling but it would be a factor in wherever I do chose to live ( currently of no fixed abode as they say
).I love cycling in France - but I don't think I could live there!
I lived in NL for 20 years and the cycling structure is fantastic! But it's not for everyone.
Rush hour in a big, old city like Amsterdam can be a nightmare - Rotterdam on the other hand is much better.
The country is mainly flat, can be boring and headwinds can be ..... fun
It is really set up for utility cycling rather than road or racing. I'd imagine trying to chase down segments can get very frustrating on busy cycle paths.
However, I do recall leaving work at 6 am facing into a 21km commute after about 20cm of snow falling and being amazed that the cycle paths were cleared of snow before the roads!
By the way, the Dutch have such a good infrastructure because of foresight but there was huge amounts of conflict back in the sixties when infrastructure started going in.
