Apart from me and Screenman, who is tubeless?

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
things may have moved on but on my old SP370 I used to have to bolt the tyres to the rims to stop them creeping under accelleration/braking at low pressure.

My tubes slide round so the valves aren't straight. Is that what you mean by creeping?

That's why I've started to express a sudden and unexpected interest in tubeless, but having read up on it some more, I think it will be less hassle to just take one side of the tyre off and straighten them up every few weeks.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Drago, you do talk some rubbish sometimes. The conversion kits are extremely good value and do the job well, but how would you know as you have stated you have the proper one's so have not tried the conversion kits.

02GF74, it is not about weight saving and lower air pressure I am sure increases rolling resistance. Why carry 2 inner tubes? how many do you carry now?


I wonder why tubeless is used in most other modern forms of transport, cars, motorbikes, etc.
I got a box of 30 DT conversion kits to try on the fleet I maintain to teach with, so I rather think I've had more first hand experience than you. Sometimes they work first go, sometimes they never seal at all for reasons unknown to mankind. I fed back my experience to the supplier who conceded that they seemed to often simply not work, and advised Stans aren't any more consistent.

I still carry 1 spare tube and a patch of pond liner to act as a makeshift boot because if I split or tear a tyre I'm going to look mighty foolish.

Tubeless is used in heavier vehicles such as cars, motorbikes etc, mainly because friction between the tyre and the tube would often cause the tube to fail through abrasion. Not so bad up until the 70's, but as cars especially became heavier and more powerful it started to become a rear problem, so tubeless became the norm - the reasons and benefits are practically unrelated to the reasons for going tubeless on a bicycle.

I'm not against it, but I don't get a trouser tent over it either. In my case I was careful with tyres and pressures and have never, ever, suffered a pinch flat, and I teach mountain biking for most of my living. In my case its an answer to a question I hadn't really asked.
 
OP
OP
Cubist

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
So, that quote says it's the most common, but none of you seem to be using it. Why are you guys using tubeless ready instead? What's different/better about one compared to the other?
You can use tubeless ready tyres on most rims, as long as you use the conversion kit. If you like there are three main ways to go tubeless, without resorting to ghetto, but I 'll get to that in a bit.

1. Stans tubeless strips (not to confused with Stans tubeless tape) are like half an inner tube with a valve attached. Other makers also do them, such as Bontrager. They sit in the well of the rim, sealing air from the spoke holes, but also help the tyre to seat in the rim. You can use them on some ordinary rims.

You are best using tubeless ready tyres as they are less porous and have a consistent bead that will seat under the rim clincher. You seat the tyre on the stans strips, then inflate and add latex fluid. The strip is pushed into the clincher by the tyre. The latex fluid contains granular material and this creates a seal at all points where air escapes, and after a few minutes forms a perfectly airtight seal. Using a conversion kit like this gives you the performance advantage of tubeless but without the weight benefit.

2. Tubeless rims with tubeless tape and valves. I'll use Stans as the example. The tubeless rims are wrapped with very adhesive, thin strong tape. This seals the spoke holes. You then push a tubeless valve through the tape and out of the valve hole. It screws up tight and has a rubber flange to make it airtight. You then put tubeless ready tyres onto the tyre and pump until they seal into the clinchers on both side. You then deflate them, and inject 60ml of fluid per tyre in through the valve stem (they screw in half) and repressurise them. They're very simple, and give both a performance and a weight benefit.

3. UST on UST rims. These work like car tubeless, where the tyre seats in a tubeless rim and seals without sealant. They reason no one uses them is that they are much heavier and more expensive than Tubeless ready. I can't see the point personally. Others may disagree.

Ghetto is a sort of cheap version of 1. You can theoretically use any rim, as you use a 20" BMX tyre, which you stretch onto a 26" rim, seating the valve as normal, and then slice it open along the outside diameter. You then seat your tyre on top of the BMX tyre and pump it up. The BMX tyre forms a seal between the tyre and the clincher. You fill it with sealant and trim away the excess bmx tube which is visible outside the tyre.
 
OP
OP
Cubist

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
This guy clearly enjoyed his ghetto tubeless experience
spoogeexplosion.jpg
 

screenman

Legendary Member
Cubist brilliant write up, only point I differ on is that I do not put sealant through the valve hole, I just pull a part of the tyre to one side at the bottom and and the sealant that way. I find this quicker and neater with no chance of spillage etc.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
I bow to your superior knowledge sir, where do your train people? It sounds an interesting subject.
Whichever police force wants me. We've done work at most of the southern and central forces, and sone Northern ones. Done some private tuition locally at the Tiifield Estate and Salcey Forest. Done a bit at Cannock to, but wasn't welcomed with open arms, possibly due to being qualified 2 levels higher than their resident trainers.

Rarely do private work now, a lot of effort, petrol and grief for not much money, not to mention wear and tear on my own equipment, although I do get invited to do a spot for kids organisations and charities etc, which I do if I'm available.

Found it - March 2011 MBR, they also had trouble with Stans, 3 attempts to get it to seal a Conti tyre on a Commencal rim.
 

Motozulu

Über Member
Location
Rugeley, Staffs
I'm in the Lulubel camp here (about tubeless - I knew about trouser tenting ^_^) I'm a comparative novice and thus far have'nt suffered problems with pinch flats so fail to see the benefits of what looks like a lot of expense and hassle for what gain?
 

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
My inner tubes slipping round inside the tyre is irritating, and will require a bit of maintenance I wasn't expecting.

I decided to read up on tubeless, and was starting to think the UST system looked like it might be promising (at some point, when I did a wheel upgrade) because it doesn't use sealant. Then I found another site where it said most people still use sealant with them, and that kind of spoilt it for me.

I've also read that you need very high pressure to get the tyres to seal onto the rims, which isn't that big a deal - although I'm not a fan of CO2 pumps, I'm not against getting an air compressor for home because those have a lot of other uses - but I'm not sure how I'd deal with a puncture on the trail with that system.

Besides which, there's no benefit in weight terms, and if you use sealant, they actually weigh more.

Stan's (and similar systems) still looks like a lot of faffing to me.
 
OP
OP
Cubist

Cubist

Still wavin'
Location
Ovver 'thill
Faff and Forget :biggrin:
Stans system on Stans rims is as easy if not easier than changing a tube on Cubester's Minion/ EX500 setup.

You take an inner tube just in case and simply stick a tube in to get you home.
 

screenman

Legendary Member
I fear this could turn into a helmet style thread, so best if we all agree to differ.

I tried Stans and liked it, many have not tried it and do not like it. Drago has a lot more experience on the subject than I do, however with my limited experience I have had no problems getting a seal.
 

lulubel

Über Member
Location
Malaga, Spain
I don't think there's any need for it to turn into a helmet style debate. Some of us use tubeless, some of us don't. Some of us have tried it and loved it, some of us have tried it and can't really see the benefit (or at least one of us has).

I think helmet debates get so heated because the people who don't choose to wear helmets feel as if they're being pressured to wear them by some helmet-wearing members (and society as a whole) so they can tend to get very defensive.

What made you decide to try Stans? Ease of use? Affordability? Same as your daughter-in-law uses? (I think it was your DIL you mentioned in the other thread?)
 

screenman

Legendary Member
I think I chose Stans for all those reason. I think one of the major reasons I changed is we are blessed in Lincolnshire with very aggressive hedge cutting, which is a massive bonus for the puncture fairies. Going tubeless was another way of getting away from them.
 
Top Bottom