Are B&Q THE most inept...

[psmiffy]

The sooner B&Q close, the better.

Sounds like you are going to get your wish sooner rather than later - the theory of infinite market expansion takes another hit

 

[Mugshot]

I'm just reading this, you cheeky so and so!
What local outlet? You mean local companies that would buy the stuff from Wickes/B&Q/similar others and charge you more for it?
Did this, for my tenant, to save her the inconvenience of having to wait for deliveries and the usual delays by workmen not showing up.
We needed a new radiator, after the job was priced: the plumber got one, charged me £ 60, when I said that the same radiator cost £20 in B&Q, he said " well, it does not jump in the van by itself, you know?"
Fair enough, you pay for his time and van wear.
For my own new bathroom I decided to buy my own stuff from a one stop shop like Wickes to save time, but I gave the jobs to local tradesmen.
Guess what? There are still bits to be finished, 'cause the tiler couldn't manage with the joiner who could not manage with the plumber because when they were all free one did not show ... more than once.
Anyway, there are no local outlets here for tiles and bathroom fitting, it's all big national companies or pricey importers of designer stuff from abroad.

No Pat, I think you're talking more about tradesmen whereas I'm talking about retailers and customers.
I'm afraid I have little sympathy for people that buy from chains or the internet at the expense of local independent retailers that then go on to wring their hands in disbelief when the cistern on their £50 toilet packs up after 6 months.
I own a bathroom, kitchen and tile shop and everyday I have people coming in who, having decided which of the items we have on display or in one of our supplier brochures they like the most, will then take photos so they can search the internet to try to buy it cheaper. I have conversations with people everyday and explain and demonstate the reasons why some products can cost more than others but people don't want to know or don't believe you. I have customers come in with their fitters who having already chosen everything with me are then convinced by their fitter that by using his trade account they can get the same stuff cheaper elsewhere, they can't, he's going to buy crap and charge them more for it, the same sort of situation as your radiator story. I had an email a couple of days ago from somebody asking for a price on some kitchen units, I replied with a couple of options. They took the time to email back not to inform me they could get it cheaper but to actually gloat that they could (they wouldn't have got it cheaper it would have just been a similar looking door). I had a guy in last week that just wanted a basin as his was broken, he found one that looked similar and when I told him the price he puffed out his chest and informed me that he had paid the same for the basin AND the pedestal online, I suggested that it may be an idea to try to get the basin from the supplier he had used originally, he said he would do but he couldn't get hold of them. The list is endless.
It's becoming a race to the bottom and I get incredibly frustrated when I hear people spouting about the great deal they think they've had and then in the next breath complain that 50% of the shops on the high street are closed. Too many people want everything to be cheaper, everything to be in stock and everything to be available immediately all the time, then they'll hold their hands up in horror when they discover that their t-shirt was made by a 4 year old in Taiwan or that there's horse meat in their burgers or when they don't receive the service which they've done their utmost to avoid paying anything for.

 

[Drago]

You own a shop? Cool!

 

[Mugshot]

You own a shop? Cool!

I do Drago. Sometimes it's great and sometimes it's crap, but having been self employed for 10 years now although I do occasionally miss the security of a regular pay cheque and I would almost certainly make more money working for somebody else, particularly if you look at my pay per hour, I don't think I'd want to now if I can avoid it. There's no denying that for the majority of micro and small businesses like mine it's generally a daily struggle but so long as I can pay my bills and put food on the table I'm happy with that

 

[Dave the Smeghead]

It's becoming a race to the bottom

In most markets it always is. Note the English tradesman that has business premises and the normal set up (family, mortgage etc) that 20 years ago could make a living, whereas now, with all the labour that has entered the marketplace and is prepared to work for cheaper and cheaper rates because they live here in conditions better than elsewhere but far below the traditional English standards, now cannot make ends meet. A young nephew of mine was talking the other weekend about the rates for brickies and joiners on the site he is on, and it is less than I was working for 18 years ago when I last did big site construction installations. How many employees in office based roles are working for less than they did 18 years ago?

 

[gbb]

Does any serious professional actually use B&Q? Their prices are a disgrace and their stock a mess. I sometimes see tradesmen in there browsing bits and wonder what the heck they are doing with their time and money if they don't realise they're being ripped off and wasting precious time. The sooner B&Q close, the better.

The sad thing is, even some of the traditional ironmongers are gone now. We had Parkers of Peterborough, family run, supplied primarily to the building trade, everything you could think of in fixings, tools, rope etc etc , all the general ironmongery you could think of and more...you went behind the counter and some stuff was like it was from the ark...but for instance, buy a pack of carpet tacks from BnQ, it'd cost 99p for 20 tacks (roughly)...you could buy a box of 500 for £2 from Parkers.
They disappeared 10 years ago...they just can't compete with the big boys plus Screwfix etc etc etc.

Hats off to the likes of Mugshot (although i didnt agree with your sentiments earlier) , but there are so few now.

 

[Mugshot]

Hats off to the likes of Mugshot (although i didnt agree with your sentiments earlier) , but there are so few now.

Perhaps I could have worded it less abrasively

 

[Globalti]

If I want plain plumbing stuff I go to a ropey old English plumber's merchant in a freezing filthy old shed in the town where plumbers go for their kit on account or if I want brassware I head for an Asian place, which is clean and bright and has a much better stock of bathroom fittings etc. at very competitive prices where the town's Asian home-improvers go because they aren't welcomed at the English place. Both offer extremely cheap prices, much much cheaper than Plumb Centre and the big sheds.

If I want electrical stuff I go to a Sikh-run place in Strangeways, Manchester, or an English wholesaler who has about five small stores around the North-West that open at 07:30 for serious electricians to stock up on their way to their day's work. If I'm desperate I'll got to Screwfix and if I've been stupid enough to start a DIY job on a Saturday afternoon just as the specialists are closing I'll grudgingly go and buy the smallest part I need to finish the job at a DIY shed.

 

[Piemaster]

Quite right really, the lines get blurred re experience because I work with 3 phase, quite confidently fault find, replace contactors, motors, etc etc.
But, youre right in that I dont know regs and do find myself shying away from jobs at home id happily do years ago..fitting a shower, that kind of stuff.
Insurance wis if nothing else, .its a definate no no

Odd isn't it? I run a 4MW power station (amongst other things) but domestically I'll employ an electrician for the same reasons.

 

[neil_merseyside]

Does any serious professional actually use B&Q? Their prices are a disgrace and their stock a mess. I sometimes see tradesmen in there browsing bits and wonder what the heck they are doing with their time and money if they don't realise they're being ripped off and wasting precious time. The sooner B&Q close, the better.

Most tradesmen look in on the sheds to get retail prices of parts, they can then offer 'fitting only' or 'supply and fit' - if they then buy 'trade' they can make more money.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I'm afraid I have little sympathy for people that buy from chains or the internet at the expense of local independent retailers that then go on to wring their hands in disbelief when the cistern on their £50 toilet packs up after 6 months.

There are no local independent retailers in my area.
The nearest thing to it, where all tradesmen go, is an industrial estate about 15 miles away, near the airport, scary roads to cycle in, I don't have a car, there is no public transport to it.
They are actually cheaper than Wickes (I picked medium range tiles and fittings from Wickes, about £2,500 for a small bathroom) but can't get to them.
Who supplies you anyway? Probably is the same manufacturers that supply the national outlets.
Or do you import from the continent? I did not want a boutique bathroom, just a plain functional one, that's why I went to a big chain, location and a reasonable price range.
Anyway, one does not know what to do with home improvements nowadays: the big chains are as unreliable as the small businesses, hassle, delays, shoddy work plenty, whatever the price one is prepared to pay.
The small tradesman (a plumber and his son) that supplied and fitted my tenant's bathroom and hired the tiler, put the new bath on top of a rotten floorboard that I had pointed out to them, they didn't even need to have checked it for themselves, as they should have anyway. They were not cheap, £ 4,000 for a room not much bigger than an en suite.
That is why they did not get the job of doing mine.
Now I would like to give my tenant a new kitchen, we are talking again about a small room: only thinking about this stresses me!

 

[Mugshot]

There are no local independent retailers in my area.
The nearest thing to it, where all tradesmen go, is an industrial estate about 15 miles away, near the airport, scary roads to cycle in, I don't have a car, there is no public transport to it.
They are actually cheaper than Wickes (I picked medium range tiles and fittings from Wickes, about £2,500 for a small bathroom) but can't get to them.

I don't know where you live, apart from Glasgow, but sometimes the independents can be a little more tricky to find. Without the funds for driving ourselves up Google rankings when people use general search terms like "Kitchens Glasgow" you tend to rely more on recommendations and people actually seeing your signage and searching specifically for you, or of course coming to visit. I did a quick search for "Kitchens Glasgow" and returned THESE results, I've had a look at each of the websites for the companies shown A - G and I do recognise the pictures used by THIS one. They are from a company called ORMEROD, I deal with them and their kitchens are excellent. Other kitchen manufacturers are available of course and I deal with several, if you wanted to find out which particular company a retailer was dealing with if I knew them I'd be happy to let you know what I thought of them. With regards to distance I have in the past travelled 100 miles to do a kitchen design for somebody. I regularly travel 20 - 30 miles, I will take door samples and brochures with me and if I had a customer that wanted to visit the showroom but was unable to get there I'd give them a lift. I don't think that I would be unusual in that.

Who supplies you anyway? Probably is the same manufacturers that supply the national outlets.
Or do you import from the continent? I did not want a boutique bathroom, just a plain functional one, that's why I went to a big chain, location and a reasonable price range.

It's rather the opposite. Retailers like myself have neither the room nor the funds generally to be importing direct, certainly not in volume, whereas the big guns do. We use distributors, for bathrooms I deal with about 5/6 general bathroom suppliers and 3/4 specialist shower/brassware/whatever manufacturers. This gives me access to far far more choice than can be offered by any multiple. It also gives me access to products which mean I can compete on price but more importantly from my point of view it gives me access to products which will in general be a better quality to the chains. Generally what I sell is branded. I'm not suggesting that they only sell rubbbish, they most certainly do not. However what they may call their exclusive/executive/premium range is no better than what I would consider to be standard fare which I sell day in day out (well I try to), and I don't charge a premium because I've given it a fancy name.

Anyway, one does not know what to do with home improvements nowadays: the big chains are as unreliable as the small businesses, hassle, delays, shoddy work plenty, whatever the price one is prepared to pay.
The small tradesman (a plumber and his son) that supplied and fitted my tenant's bathroom and hired the tiler, put the new bath on top of a rotten floorboard that I had pointed out to them, they didn't even need to have checked it for themselves, as they should have anyway. They were not cheap, £ 4,000 for a room not much bigger than an en suite.
That is why they did not get the job of doing mine.
Now I would like to give my tenant a new kitchen, we are talking again about a small room: only thinking about this stresses me!

It can be tricky with tradesmen, even working on recommendation can be difficult. The chains will usually offer a fitting service as do a lot of independants. The issue with this is that it can cost you an enormous amount more because you have somebody else wanting a slice of the pie. For example B&Q, Homebase and Wickes will on average be double the price that we are for the fitting, yet they're using the same boys. The reason is that slice of pie, we don't take any monies on behalf of the fitter, we have fitters that we have used for years and you pay them direct at the end of the job. We get no backhanders or commision. What I would not do however is approach a fitter to supply the product, if a fitter recommends a retailer that's ok, if they say they'll buy the stuff for you you could be looking at paying top dollar for shoddy products.

 

[Mugshot]

Now I would like to give my tenant a new kitchen, we are talking again about a small room: only thinking about this stresses me!

There is not really any way that I can come and see you, but I may be able to help you at least a little. HERE is the website of one of the suppliers I deal with, if you wanted to have a look at that site and pick a door or two and then send me your measurements I would do a design for you (or several until you were happy) and I would price it for you. At least you then have a ball park figure to start with. With regards to the design if you were happy with it and wanted to hawk it around various other retailers then you would be welcome to (this is not my usual MO, I never give out copies of the plans I do unless the kitchen has been purchased), or alternatively as that particular company deliver direct you could even buy it from me (I hope I'm allowed to say that I am honestly not touting for trade!)

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Thanks very much @Mugshot, gonna look into your kind offer and pm you

 

[PaulSB]

Very interested in this debate and especially the question of local trades and retailers. Our philosophy is to buy locally whenever possible on the basis reputation is important to local retailers and if one keeps returning one becomes a valued customer.

For example we need a new integrated dishwasher, fridge and cooker hood. Popped in to Chorley Domestics last Saturday. Arranged for a visit on Tuesday between 10-11am. My wife has to pop in to the shop tomorrow to finalise fridge and pay deposit. Fitting in two weeks. We don't even question the price for two reasons, a quick web browse says it's about right but more importantly we get service.

Living in an area subject to an Article 4 direction (no changes to external appearance without PP) when we needed double glazed 12 pane windows that fully open a friend suggested I looked at his. They were superb. Phoned the joiner got the quote, said yes, and a month later bespoke hand made windows fitted. after fitting you couldn't even tell workmen had been in the house. Since then the same joiner had been back for three other jobs.

It's not easy finding competent local trades and shops but well worth the effort.

Compare this with dining room chairs recently ordered on line from Next - after months of searching it was the ONLY option.

First set arrived without problem until assembled and found to be rocky. Replacements arrive with same batch number - immediately suspicious. Unpack replacements and assemble one - rocky. Measure legs to discover two are 4mm shorter than the other two and weirdly this is on the diagonal. Measure the other chairs and all have same problem. On a carpeted floor it probably wouldn't matter but not so on a wood floor.

After 14 attempts to arrange collection I demanded to drop them in at the local store. This breaks all the rules. I did and got a written receipt from the manager.

While I'm waiting in the store I look at the same chairs on display on a wooden floor. All four had the same problem. I did mention this to the manager but she wasn't intrrested.

Still waiting for the refund though .......... after three weeks!!