mcshroom
Bionic Subsonic
- Location
- Egremont, Cumbria
Why would someone do a mass edit of the files? surely the use of something like DigitalEPO would be a lot simpler and easier
Are GPS devices accurate enough to be used as evidence in accidents?
- Thread starter Cyclopathic
- Start date
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T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Digital EPO which is used to increase the speed of a ride. That is helpful in the context of an accident. Yes officer, I used this cheating barsteward app to make me look 20% faster as I rear-ended the motorcyclist.
Might as well tattoo GUILTY on your forehead and wear your trousers low in prison
But this all assumes you are,
- Alive after the accident
- Capable of operating a computer
- Able to modify GPS data
- In posession of the GPS unit
- Not in custody
Canrider
Guru
TBH, I just used the example of a car speeding as a convenience for demonstrating how easily the XML could be modified en masse (in this case, to remove evidence of a car exceeding the speed limit at some point during its journey). Work out max speed, remove some factor X to make sure it never goes over the limit, and you were never speeding (unless they work through the trig of your XYZ and timestamps and compare that with the modified speed field--now *that* would take some work.
(Editing 'prior to an accident' wouldn't make much sense, would it?
)
T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
I don't disagree it can be done. But I can't see how it can be done convincingly/easily and quickly after an accident. Much to say,if you wanted to appear innocent by not being there(a simple delete of the log file?), moving slower or being stationary - it would be overall difficult.
The cycling logs are further interesting if you have other factors like power,cadence and HR. All of which would require editing (on their own merits) ie: you can't be producing power with 0 cadence, nor are you likely to have 165BPM hr throughout all of the ride as you would naturally recover to some degree whilst stopped,coasting or descending.
As an aside. Taken off my sisters Garmin Nuvi(completely raw)
< Can't think of anything clever>(Editing 'prior to an accident' wouldn't make much sense, would it?
HLaB
Marie Attoinette Fan
Well you know what they say about these helmet camera users looking for trouble and staging events to get their 30secs of youtube fame(Editing 'prior to an accident' wouldn't make much sense, would it?
Risex4
Dropped by the autobus
- Location
- The Green/Gray Hills Of Debunshire
Holy moly.
What did I provoke there.
Whilst I very much doubt that most people would have the knowledge or patience to ammend a GPS file, as (I think) has been covered by others, I meant that as evidence GPS tracks would be easily dismissable by opposing council as inherently inaccurate or that the integrity could not be validated.
Yep.
This.
What did I provoke there.
Whilst I very much doubt that most people would have the knowledge or patience to ammend a GPS file, as (I think) has been covered by others, I meant that as evidence GPS tracks would be easily dismissable by opposing council as inherently inaccurate or that the integrity could not be validated.
Yep.
I think that is the case the .gpx file is too long and complicated to edit for most folk but the possibility remains and some 'clever' lawyer would use that, so even if it was 100% accurate I don't think it could be used
This.
T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Just to be clear.
If one of you happened to be involved in a non-fault accident (and you had GPS logging to back that up,whether by your direction or speed) but the opposite party doesn't admit liability. ie: your word vs his/hers
You wouldn't mention it as part of the case as it's inadmissible - Or would you contest the claim with as much evidence as possible?
I know what I (or my family) would do..
If one of you happened to be involved in a non-fault accident (and you had GPS logging to back that up,whether by your direction or speed) but the opposite party doesn't admit liability. ie: your word vs his/hers
You wouldn't mention it as part of the case as it's inadmissible - Or would you contest the claim with as much evidence as possible?
I know what I (or my family) would do..
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
There are two kinds of gps accuracy. Absolute & relative. You can have high relative accuracy but not absolute accuracy. Most devices have good relative accuracy, unfortunately in a collision you need both types of accuracy.
T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
Can I have a source of definition for those terms please Gras. "absolute gps accuracy" and "relative gps accuracy"
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/11/sport-device-gps-accuracy-in-depth-part.html
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/11/sport-device-gps-accuracy-in-depth-part.html
MrJamie
Oaf on a Bike
Without looking into it I guess a nerd could quite quickly parse the file and multiply the time indexes by a small amount to stretch out the points and reduce the values in the speed tags by the same amount.
I don't think its a case of average accuracy though as much as it is reliability of data and I doubt that's high enough on consumer units to be considered, but my legal knowledge is virtually non-existent.
I don't think its a case of average accuracy though as much as it is reliability of data and I doubt that's high enough on consumer units to be considered, but my legal knowledge is virtually non-existent.
Interesting case from the US about GPS as evidence....
Guy robs a bank and the money he is given contains a GPS Tracker
He is then followed and picked up, charged and goes to court
Then there is an argument about the evidence provided by the GPS
He argues that it is illegal to have tracked him using a GPS system without his knowledge and consent. The GPS tarckis therefore inadmissible
The bank argues that they were tracking their property and the fact that this also tracked the individual is coincidental. It is therefore admissible
The argument was resolved by loking at the reason the data was created in teh first place, and deemed admissible.
It does come up with an interesting point though.
If a driver's company is using a real time tracking system it would need to prove that the vehicle was being tracked, and not the driver, r alternatively obtain consent
Guy robs a bank and the money he is given contains a GPS Tracker
He is then followed and picked up, charged and goes to court
Then there is an argument about the evidence provided by the GPS
He argues that it is illegal to have tracked him using a GPS system without his knowledge and consent. The GPS tarckis therefore inadmissible
The bank argues that they were tracking their property and the fact that this also tracked the individual is coincidental. It is therefore admissible
The argument was resolved by loking at the reason the data was created in teh first place, and deemed admissible.
It does come up with an interesting point though.
If a driver's company is using a real time tracking system it would need to prove that the vehicle was being tracked, and not the driver, r alternatively obtain consent
T.M.H.N.E.T
Rainbows aren't just for world champions
- Location
- Northern Ireland
That does get interesting. Especially if the vehicle tracker shows it to be somewhere it shouldn't, perhaps suggesting that the driver (who would be aware of the trackers existence) was doing a bit of extra curricular work.
