Are modern bike components pants??

[Alan O]

This is an interesting subject, and I have a few thoughts about it.

I can still remember my Grandad telling me about how his 3-speed bicycle had lasted for decades and was still in great condition - but he was an engineer by trade, and he'd expertly kept it maintained almost as good as new.

My bikes (older steel 5 or 6 speed bikes with friction shifters) have lasted for decades too, just like the OP's and my grandad's, but that was with regular cleaning and maintenance which keeps a bike in its best operational condition - I simply couldn't afford to keep paying for replacements, so it really paid to keep a bike good with minimum costs in oil, grease and just my labour.

I think it's easy to think a neglected bike is still good, as the degradation can be gradual and is often not noticed until something seriously breaks, by which time the sudden realisation that it's all about to fall apart can set in. There's also a survivorship bias - we might hear from the occasional cyclist whose neglected old bike is still going strong, but the many whose bikes have fallen apart are silent.

It's true that more complex mechanisms need more maintenance and shouldn't be expected to last as long without maintenance. So a modern indexed gear shifter shouldn't be expected to last as long as an old friction lever. But we get better performance in exchange.

Another big improvement is that leading-edge bike technology has come down in price. I estimate that my steel Orbit with 10 speeds that I bought 30 years ago cost the equivalent of around £750 in today's terms accounting for inflation - and I'd have been amazed at the time if I could have known what that money was going to be able to buy in 2016!

So no, I would strongly disagree that modern bike components are poor. We just perhaps have compromises between performance, reliability and costs which are different to the compromises made in the past, for valid reasons.

 

[Dogtrousers]

You have a point. Back in the day I had one bike for London commuting, fun riding and touring. I used to strip it down one a year and never cleaned it. These days I lovingly clean my road bike after every ride and I still chew through chains and chainrings at a rate of knots. @Yellow Saddle also has a point about rusty chrome things and crap brakes.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

the fact that the elder members of the cycling club i'm in all choose modern kit over the old, tells me all i need to know on the subject. what goes for (in my opinion) classic retro is often, in their eyes, old tat they're happy to clear from the garage…

 

[VintageRuby]

Well my bike is at least 20-30 years old (not sure) and she's practically as good as new, the only thing i've had to "replace" (by choice) was the handlebars to straight ones as i didn't like the drops

 

[Milkfloat]

Back in the day it was difficult to buy a BSO, you had to spend a fortune in relative terms to get on two wheels. No wonder a bike that costs £50 brand new from a supermarket is sub par.

 

[lutonloony]

The tolerances used in the old 5-7 speed systems were a bit looser than required for 10-11 speed

5-7 you say, I have vague recollection of my Hercules having a 4 speed freewheel

 

[tyred]

I think the general quality has gone down, partly driven by cost and by the drive for lightness and the marketing advantage of being able to sell ever more gears.

Modern derailleurs and brakes definitely work better, no doubt about it but they won't last as long.

I've refurbished well used bikes from the thirties and the bearing cups etc clean up like new. That is not the case with any modern bike I've worked on (admittedly never high end bikes). What you have to remember is that the cost of something like my '39 Elswick-Hopper was a considerable investment for the original owner and was probably his only transport, and he would have expected it to last decades with minimal replacement parts (and it has). He would have been willing to accept a heavier, slower singlespeed bike if it lasted longer. The throwaway society wasn't invented in 1939. It's a hefty beast but that's because it's sturdy and built to last from high quality steels. A Tesco mountain bike is heavy because it's cheap and it won't be around in 80 years time but the modern day buyer won't care as he/she has the funds to buy a new one rather than get oily hands from servicing it.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I think the general quality has gone down, partly driven by cost and by the drive for lightness and the marketing advantage of being able to sell ever more gears.

Modern derailleurs and brakes definitely work better, no doubt about it but they won't last as long.

I'd dispute that. There is no difference in operation between a brake or a rear derailleur than there was fifty years ago, they work in exactly the same way. The internals in the gear shift are more complicated because they are indexed, but they are reliable enough not to be an issue. Back in those days you had a choice of very expensive Campagnolo which was superbly engineered, and everything else which to varying degrees wasn't.

 

[tyred]

I'd dispute that. There is no difference in operation between a brake or a rear derailleur than there was fifty years ago, they work in exactly the same way. The internals in the gear shift are more complicated because they are indexed, but they are reliable enough not to be an issue. Back in those days you had a choice of very expensive Campagnolo which was superbly engineered, and everything else which to varying degrees wasn't.

I was thinking specifically of the pre parallelogram Cyclo-Benelux derailleur on my 1950s Raleigh Trent. Beautifully made and very durable but you almost need a degree in mechanical engineering and an extra pair of hands to set it up so it works properly and fair degree of patience and mechanical sympathy to use it and the block had to be close ratio (a 4 speed with 2 tooth jumps in my case) as it couldn't do big teeth difference so the gear range is rather limited. It is however the smoothest and most efficient derailleur drive train I've used once you get the sprocket and trim it properly it feels like a singlespeed. I view it as the cycling equivalent of a crash gearbox. It works fine but not for those who haven't developed the knack of using it.

Older brakes worked fine but I find the drop bar versions seem to need more hand pressure than modern ones but this is more to do with the levers than the callipers.

 

[palinurus]

I'd dispute that. There is no difference in operation between a brake or a rear derailleur than there was fifty years ago, they work in exactly the same way. The internals in the gear shift are more complicated because they are indexed, but they are reliable enough not to be an issue. Back in those days you had a choice of very expensive Campagnolo which was superbly engineered, and everything else which to varying degrees wasn't.

I agree. I've never worn out a rear mech, either sold/ given away with bike or removed and re-used. Also have never worn out any brake components of any age beyond cables and pads. Got a bits box full of them.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I was thinking specifically of the pre parallelogram Cyclo-Benelux derailleur on my 1950s Raleigh Trent. Beautifully made and very durable but you almost need a degree in mechanical engineering and an extra pair of hands to set it up so it works properly and fair degree of patience and mechanical sympathy to use it and the block had to be close ratio (a 4 speed with 2 tooth jumps in my case) as it couldn't do big teeth difference so the gear range is rather limited.

That sounds to me a convoluted way of saying they make them better today, since modern equipment suffer from none of those maladies.

It is however the smoothest and most efficient derailleur drive train I've used once you get the sprocket and trim it properly it feels like a singlespeed. I view it as the cycling equivalent of a crash gearbox. It works fine but not for those who haven't developed the knack of using it.

Smooth? You say "once you get the sprocket". That to me reads that it is a noisy and clackety as hell until it goes into gear and you've fine-tuned it. My old Morris Minor's three-speed non-synchromesh gearbox is fantastic - once you've grated the hell out of the gears to get it to change.

Be thankful that I'm not asking you to define efficiency.

Older brakes worked fine but I find the drop bar versions seem to need more hand pressure than modern ones but this is more to do with the levers than the callipers.

No, they didn't work fine. They were pretty crap. They wouldn't centre automatically and their long flimsy arms made sure they were weak and noisy. We now have dual-pivot brakes with beefy forged arms that resist the conditions that make them squeal and squirm. The higher mechanical advantage of modern brakes make them a pleasure to use. And all that before I even mention the dreaded centre-pull's straddle wire.

Yeah, they don't make them like they used to.

They make them better, cheaper and easier to use.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I would happily live without indexed gears and 10 speed cassettes (without cassettes at all) and happily live with threaded headsets and cup and cone BBs. Their replacements are different but not earth shatteringly better unless you happen to be maintaining a fleet of bikes.

However I could NOT happily live with fiddly ineffectual brakes, chrome rims and useless lights.

Also mudguard stays. They are better these days. And safer.

 

[tyred]

That sounds to me a convoluted way of saying they make them better today, since modern equipment suffer from none of those maladies.



Smooth? You say "once you get the sprocket". That to me reads that it is a noisy and clackety as hell until it goes into gear and you've fine-tuned it. My old Morris Minor's three-speed non-synchromesh gearbox is fantastic - once you've grated the hell out of the gears to get it to change.

Be thankful that I'm not asking you to define efficiency.


No, they didn't work fine. They were pretty crap. They wouldn't centre automatically and their long flimsy arms made sure they were weak and noisy. We now have dual-pivot brakes with beefy forged arms that resist the conditions that make them squeal and squirm. The higher mechanical advantage of modern brakes make them a pleasure to use. And all that before I even mention the dreaded centre-pull's straddle wire.

Yeah, they don't make them like they used to.

They make them better, cheaper and easier to use.

I'm saying they're easier to use and cheaper. I'm also saying they are not of the same quality and won't last as long. Just read any number of posts from people reporting pathetic mileage from 9/10/11 speed chains and cassettes, BB30 bottom brackets and all these wonderful components you claim are better made. Easier to use, yes, better made, no.

I have never owned a Morris Minor but I know they have a 4 speed gearbox with synchro on the top three gears so you are clearly talking nonsense there. If you actually did own one, well, it demonstrates great knowledge that you didn't even know how many gears it had!!!!

Absolutely, long reach callipers do flex more and have reduced mechanical advantage and potentially squeal. I'm not saying they don't. The reason older road bikes had long reach callipers was because they had more clearance so it was possible to fit mudguards and practical width tyres. Modern bikes can have more effective short reach callipers because they usually have little or no clearance. I don't consider this progress at all. If you want a bone jarring ride due to skinny tyres or to get covered in cow shoot due to lack of proper mudguards, that is your choice. I choose not to and accept my brakes may be slightly inferior to yours. I've got eyes so I can watch where I'm going and react accordingly. It's called reading the road, the very thing that many cyclists accuse car drivers of not doing.

If a single pivot calliper of reasonable quality doesn't stay centred, it is either not installed correctly or not maintained properly.

I choose my bikes and components for durability and practicality. I'm happy with my choices. If you're happy with yours, that's great.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

I have never owned a Morris Minor but I know they have a 4 speed gearbox with synchro on the top three gears so you are clearly talking nonsense there. If you actually did own one, well, it demonstrates great knowledge that you didn't even know how many gears it had!!!!

Surely my example by absurdity didn't catch you out? Surely.

 

[VintageRuby]

I suppose if you think about it, it depends on where you get your components from . If you go on eBay and do a quick search it comes up with any number of bike parts from Hong Kong , I feel because we are a consumer driven society we have created the demand for cheaper everything, you don't need to pay to get something fixed because it's cheaper to buy another one. I have a cheap tablet because it's all I could afford at the time, but when the screen smashed I was told it would be cheaper to buy a new one than to repair the screen, so we've created affordable products for people on lower incomes, but at the cost of quality I suppose.
Sorry, went off on a tangent there lol