Are modern bike components pants??

[raleighnut]

That sounds to me a convoluted way of saying they make them better today, since modern equipment suffer from none of those maladies.



Smooth? You say "once you get the sprocket". That to me reads that it is a noisy and clackety as hell until it goes into gear and you've fine-tuned it. My old Morris Minor's three-speed non-synchromesh gearbox is fantastic - once you've grated the hell out of the gears to get it to change.

Be thankful that I'm not asking you to define efficiency.


No, they didn't work fine. They were pretty crap. They wouldn't centre automatically and their long flimsy arms made sure they were weak and noisy. We now have dual-pivot brakes with beefy forged arms that resist the conditions that make them squeal and squirm. The higher mechanical advantage of modern brakes make them a pleasure to use. And all that before I even mention the dreaded centre-pull's straddle wire.

Yeah, they don't make them like they used to.

They make them better, cheaper and easier to use.

Twin pivot brakes are nothing new, my 1967 Carlton Clubman is fitted with these,

 

[VintageRuby]

[QUOTE 4539076, member: 9609"]With better understanding of components and computer design the lifespan of any given product can be better predicted. So for instance you are designing a pressure washer for DIY with a 2 year warranty, (30 min a week x100 +50%) lets build it to work for 75 hours, no point in buying expensive bits that will last for 1000 hours and make the machine too expensive to sell.

Also remember our economies are built on selling us more and more stuff, the two main underlying principles are a) the consumer needs to be convinced that what they have just bought is old hat and out of fashion and they now need the latest version, and b) for those that didn't believe the bullshit of (a) then the product needs to fail in a reasonable time after the warranty runs out. And obviously any repair costs need to be structured to make buying new the better choice.

On the repairing side of things, A lot of stuff in the past was over engineered which probably made it expensive, but when things did fail it was probably a weak link and as such it was often simple and worth repairing, modern stuff is all designed to wear out at the same time, so when one bit goes wrong it is usualy time for the bin.

A great shame that we are using modern technology to increase land fill rather than making stuff that lasts forever.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, a case in point is my Jones sewing machine, it was built in the 1940's, it is hand cranked and the only thinf it needs to keep working is a clean and a bit of oil every now and then,and troubleshooting is easy because all you need to do is unscrew part A to get a reaction from part B, as it were

 

[Alan O]

...bike parts from Hong Kong...

As an aside, I saw some brake levers on sale on eBay, for 99p each including postage from China, so I ordered a pair as it wasn't much money to risk.

They arrived a couple of days ago, and they're epitaph material (I can see the headstone... "99p brake levers from China, what could go wrong?")

I won't even give them away, because I'd feel responsible for anything that might happen.

 

[GuyBoden]

Back in the day, I had Shimano Golden Arrow on my 1980's Ron Spencer road racer 531 Reynolds frame. The brakes were terrible, but slightly better than Weinmann 500's...........

I'm a vintage bike fan (I have many), but modern bike technology/design has improved things surely...........

 

[Dogtrousers]

If we rephrase the question to be "do modern transmissions have a shorter life, and require more care than old 5/10 speed ones" we may be getting closer to what the @Sunny Portrush was driving at, nothing to do with brakes.

I'll probably get shot down by @Yellow Saddle but I'll advance a theory, based on no science or engineering whatsoever.

My theory. Ahem. The price we have paid for having lovely indexed 10/11 speed cassettes is skinnier chains. These are more like racehorses compared to the old reliable 5 speed carthorse chains. They are more susceptible to "stretching" and need more cleaning to prevent this. Once stretched they may start doing harm to alloy chainrings. So the increased need for cleaning applies to them as well. The same applies, but less so, to the steel sprockets of the hub. So the price of indexed freedom is constant cleaning vigilance. End of theory.

 

[raleighnut]

If we rephrase the question to be "do modern transmissions have a shorter life, and require more care than old 5/10 speed ones" we may be getting closer to what the @Sunny Portrush was driving at, nothing to do with brakes.

I'll probably get shot down by @Yellow Saddle but I'll advance a theory, based on no science or engineering whatsoever.

My theory. Ahem. The price we have paid for having lovely indexed 10/11 speed cassettes is skinnier chains. These are more like racehorses compared to the old reliable 5 speed carthorse chains. They are more susceptible to "stretching" and need more cleaning to prevent this. Once stretched they may start doing harm to alloy chainrings. So the increased need for cleaning applies to them as well. The same applies, but less so, to the steel sprockets of the hub. So the price of indexed freedom is constant cleaning vigilance. End of theory.

The construction of cycle chains has changed,



Where once there was a bush between the pin and the roller this function is now taken by a small 'pressed' shoulder on the inner plate, ergo they wear faster.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

The construction of cycle chains has changed,



Where once there was a bush between the pin and the roller this function is now taken by a small 'pressed' shoulder on the inner plate, ergo they wear faster.

True but.
We cannot have multisprocket gears without laterally-flexible chains and this cannot be achieved with a bushing chain like that.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

If we rephrase the question to be "do modern transmissions have a shorter life, and require more care than old 5/10 speed ones" we may be getting closer to what the @Sunny Portrush was driving at, nothing to do with brakes.

I'll probably get shot down by @Yellow Saddle but I'll advance a theory, based on no science or engineering whatsoever.

My theory. Ahem. The price we have paid for having lovely indexed 10/11 speed cassettes is skinnier chains. These are more like racehorses compared to the old reliable 5 speed carthorse chains. They are more susceptible to "stretching" and need more cleaning to prevent this. Once stretched they may start doing harm to alloy chainrings. So the increased need for cleaning applies to them as well. The same applies, but less so, to the steel sprockets of the hub. So the price of indexed freedom is constant cleaning vigilance. End of theory.

Thanks for the invite but no shooting today. I'm mellowing for the weekend.

 

[raleighnut]

True but.
We cannot have multisprocket gears without laterally-flexible chains and this cannot be achieved with a bushing chain like that.

Even 'single speed' chains are constructed like that nowadays (Cheaper to make?)

It does explain why the chains on old 3spd bikes never seemed to wear out though and I'd bet that 5spd blocks would also cope with those chains.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Even 'single speed' chains are constructed like that nowadays (Cheaper to make?)

It does explain why the chains on old 3spd bikes never seemed to wear out though and I'd bet that 5spd blocks would also cope with those chains.

Far, far cheaper to make. Three less parts per link and easier assembly.
However, you statement regarding the longevity of 3spd bike chains needs questioning. Everyone here has widely accepted that those chains lasted longer but did they? Where's the data? Did anyone record their mileage from those days? Does anyone still ride it today and confirm the story? Did we ride our bikes as much in those days as we ride today? I don't know but until I do know I don't accept that they lasted longer.
Yes, 3 and five speed blocks were fitted with those chains but I can't vouch for their performance. I was too young at the time and don't have first hand experience. I always take things with a pinch of salt when I spot a bit of "the older he gets, the better things were".
I remember the days when an engine was old when it had done 50 000 miles. It started to smoke and needed and overhaul, which required lengthy running in.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Far, far cheaper to make. Three less parts per link and easier assembly.
However, you statement regarding the longevity of 3spd bike chains needs questioning. Everyone here has widely accepted that those chains lasted longer but did they? Where's the data? Did anyone record their mileage from those days? Does anyone still ride it today and confirm the story? Did we ride our bikes as much in those days as we ride today? I don't know but until I do know I don't accept that they lasted longer.
Yes, 3 and five speed blocks were fitted with those chains but I can't vouch for their performance. I was too young at the time and don't have first hand experience. I always take things with a pinch of salt when I spot a bit of "the older he gets, the better things were".
I remember the days when an engine was old when it had done 50 000 miles. It started to smoke and needed and overhaul, which required lengthy running in.

I rode and raced on five speed chains and blocks and they were no more robust than the ten and eleven speed ones we use today. And in real terms the quality stuff was much dearer and most of the budget kit was crudely engineered crap. We didn't realise how bad it was till the better stuff started to appear, we just accepted that rough operation as the norm unless you could afford the best.

 

[raleighnut]

I rode and raced on five speed chains and blocks and they were no more robust than the ten and eleven speed ones we use today. And in real terms the quality stuff was much dearer and most of the budget kit was crudely engineered crap. We didn't realise how bad it was till the better stuff started to appear, we just accepted that rough operation as the norm unless you could afford the best.

I agree about shifting quality when I rebuilt my Carlton after a big 'off' that trashed the front wheel and fork (I slid off on ice and lorry ran the bike over whilst I watched the wheelnuts whizz past my ear) I fitted 'New 105' transmission and the shifting was miles better than the old Simplex it had run for over 20yrs AFAIK the chain was original though.
NB at the time the bike was 'just an old racer' so the wheels, transmission etc were uprated