Are we being forced to go electric?

[Andy in Germany]

I've been anti car since I was a teenager and pointing out the obvious won't ever change a drivers habits.

Possibly not. However it diesn't hurt to remind them. In Stuttgart people would ask how much the Bakfiets cost every time, usually it was the second question after "does it have a motor"? When I said it was 2300€ they would make a sarcastic comment, but when I asked how much their car cost in a month they quickly saw the point.

Now that point is clearer than ever; the Bakfiets is our family car; it has been in daily use in all weathers as the Kindergarten taxi; shopping carrier; allotment transport; hospital transport; Baby carrier; holiday transport; and mover of unfeasably large loads for over a decade and is still going strong.

I would generously estimate it has cost about 20€ a month doing all that and a fair bit more yet still works flawlessly and looks respectable enough to take to weddings and funerals.

 

[FishFright]

Possibly not. However it diesn't hurt to remind them. In Stuttgart people would ask how much the Bakfiets cost every time, usually it was the second question after "does it have a motor"? When I said it was 2300€ they would make a sarcastic comment, but when I asked how much their car cost in a month they quickly saw the point.

Now that point is clearer than ever; the Bakfiets is our family car; it has been in daily use in all weathers as the Kindergarten taxi; shopping carrier; allotment transport; hospital transport; Baby carrier; holiday transport; and mover of unfeasably large loads for over a decade and is still going strong.

I would generously estimate it has cost about 20€ a month doing all that and a fair bit more yet still works flawlessly and looks respectable enough to take to weddings and funerals.

Cargo bikes are amazing things.

 

[cougie uk]

Yes I agree - although I also suspect EVs, with their ability to download software 'over the air' - particularly software that adds extra function for a fee -are getting more like mobile phones every year. I love my ID3 but Mrs R has a 2005 manual geared VW Polo - I drove it a couple of weeks ago on a couple of longish journeys and it was an absolute pleasure to have no warnings about not being in the centre of the lane or have the brakes automatically applied on a windy road because some safety system thought I was going to crash into a wall. There's a huge pleasure to be had in simplicity - it's a bit like those 1980s artists doing their unplugged albums (if you remember those)!!

Is it BMW that are trying to lease people things like heated seats ? The car has them but you need to pay extra to have them turned on ?
There is so much telemetry on all types of new cars now. Certainly not limited to EVs.

 

[All uphill]

Possibly not. However it diesn't hurt to remind them. In Stuttgart people would ask how much the Bakfiets cost every time, usually it was the second question after "does it have a motor"? When I said it was 2300€ they would make a sarcastic comment, but when I asked how much their car cost in a month they quickly saw the point.

Now that point is clearer than ever; the Bakfiets is our family car; it has been in daily use in all weathers as the Kindergarten taxi; shopping carrier; allotment transport; hospital transport; Baby carrier; holiday transport; and mover of unfeasably large loads for over a decade and is still going strong.

I would generously estimate it has cost about 20€ a month doing all that and a fair bit more yet still works flawlessly and looks respectable enough to take to weddings and funerals.

I was at an 80th birthday party a while ago in Ireland. Nobody took any notice of the expensive tin boxes parked on the grass, all the attention went to the guy on the cargo bike:

"You cycled here from town! But that's five miles!"

"How did you get here? Surely not up the motorway?"

"I thought you'd left your car at home, but you don't have one!"

"How much?"

"What do you do if it rains?"

 

[classic33]

I was at an 80th birthday party a while ago in Ireland. Nobody took any notice of the expensive tin boxes parked on the grass, all the attention went to the guy on the cargo bike:

"You cycled here from town! But that's five miles!"

"How did you get here? Surely not up the motorway?"

"I thought you'd left your car at home, but you don't have one!"

"How much?"

"What do you do if it rains?"

Get wet if, if it had been dry when I set out. Especially if no rain were forecast.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I was at an 80th birthday party a while ago in Ireland. Nobody took any notice of the expensive tin boxes parked on the grass, all the attention went to the guy on the cargo bike:

"You cycled here from town! But that's five miles!"

"How did you get here? Surely not up the motorway?"

"I thought you'd left your car at home, but you don't have one!"

"How much?"

"What do you do if it rains?"

I get that a lot. It's quite funny watching my bike upstage cars that cost six figure sums.

My favourite was a child in Duisburg who stopped playing, turned around and yelled "Hey, coooooool bike" as I passed...

Thirteen years later the bike still turns heads...

 

[fossyant]

TBH I am very tempted to go leccy in a year or so given the massive crash in EV prices compared to silly ICE prices.

My car is getting old, isn't used, but all depends upon what happens with the other 'car users' in the house. I suspect my son will nick the Aygo as he may need a commuting car as his car is basically a track car now. Daughter may pass her test, and may want to use a car - the Aygo was for them to share.

A small leccy car would be ideal, even if charging off normal leccy prices at home, as we aren't racking up more than 100 miles in a week for commuting for MrsF - once a week to charge a car at say £15 at normal leccy charges - slightly cheaper than the same petrol, but MrsF would use the leccy car rather than her petrol car. Down side, car would be a bit useless for over 100 miles, but why carry the weight of a big battery for a long distance, when the car does 25 miles tops in city traffic, which is ideal for a leccy car (with regen braking).

It would have to be funky, or I might as well get a 370Z Nismo ! Or just get rid all together ! The usual leccy cars aren't different enough for me, Tesla's are the new Ford, the rest just adaptions of a normal car.

I cycle commute, so my car is now basically used for hauling the bikes occasionally as it's much easier sticking bikes on a rof rack of a normal car than a SUV.

 

[potsy]

I am quite liking the look of the Honde E, shame about the range (and the price tag)
Probably a year or two before I start seriously looking for my next car, my current one is coming up for 5 years old and is very low mileage (under 25k) so no immediate rush to replace.

 

[Jameshow]

Possibly not. However it diesn't hurt to remind them. In Stuttgart people would ask how much the Bakfiets cost every time, usually it was the second question after "does it have a motor"? When I said it was 2300€ they would make a sarcastic comment, but when I asked how much their car cost in a month they quickly saw the point.

Now that point is clearer than ever; the Bakfiets is our family car; it has been in daily use in all weathers as the Kindergarten taxi; shopping carrier; allotment transport; hospital transport; Baby carrier; holiday transport; and mover of unfeasably large loads for over a decade and is still going strong.

I would generously estimate it has cost about 20€ a month doing all that and a fair bit more yet still works flawlessly and looks respectable enough to take to weddings and funerals.

My mate commutes to work on a old £100 alu framed bike, I keep telling him to buy a nearly new bike ride it for a year and sell it... You'll spend less than a tank of petrol!

But no he keeps on fettling it ......

He is Scottish though!!

 

[fossyant]

I am quite liking the look of the Honde E, shame about the range (and the price tag)
Probably a year or two before I start seriously looking for my next car, my current one is coming up for 5 years old and is very low mileage (under 25k) so no immediate rush to replace.

That's what I am thinking about, a used one. They are discontinued as Honda aren't really doing electric well, just like Toyota. It's a lovely looking car, and funky, and still small hatch sized. You can't buy the Honda E now at £40k. Two to three year old ones, with less than 20k miles are about £20k... yes half price. 100 miles real use, more for town driving, is fine - will do a week for us !

 

[CXRAndy]

Ford, GM and Chrysler combined together delivered 70,000 BEVs to dealers this half year in USA,


Tesla sold 900,000 in the same period.

They are combined already selling 13 times less then Tesla. Saddled with $250bn debt and hundreds of billions in defunct ICE technology. The workers union are demanding a 35hr working week, instead of 80-90hr week. How the hell are they going to earn their way out of all this debt to EV revolution

Tesla predict they will make 20 million cars sales per year by 2030

 

[CXRAndy]

Face lift ID3 review
View: https://youtu.be/g9B1zPL88HA

Why have so many expensive add on options?

 

[Andy in Germany]

Tesla predict they will make 20 million cars sales per year by 2030

I'm cautious about Tesla's 'Predictions'; let us not forget Musk was claiming Tesla would have full self-driving on Tesla "next year" in 2019, and that Tesla's autonomous Robo Taxis would cost 25,000 USD with an "Expected" profit of 30,000 USD a year for the user.

 

[cougie uk]

That's what I am thinking about, a used one. They are discontinued as Honda aren't really doing electric well, just like Toyota. It's a lovely looking car, and funky, and still small hatch sized. You can't buy the Honda E now at £40k. Two to three year old ones, with less than 20k miles are about £20k... yes half price. 100 miles real use, more for town driving, is fine - will do a week for us !

Those Hondas are funky but ridiculously overpriced for new.

 

[classic33]

Ford, GM and Chrysler combined together delivered 70,000 BEVs to dealers this half year in USA,


Tesla sold 900,000 in the same period.

They are combined already selling 13 times less then Tesla. Saddled with $250bn debt and hundreds of billions in defunct ICE technology. The workers union are demanding a 35hr working week, instead of 80-90hr week. How the hell are they going to earn their way out of all this debt to EV revolution

Tesla predict they will make 20 million cars sales per year by 2030

Provided their still around. Never healthy for any company to be taking itself to court, which will end up with having to pay themselves damages. Win or lose.