Are we being forced to go electric?

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DRM

Guru
Location
West Yorks
As I’ve said before, a lot of companies have charging points, not loads of them, but invariably they have a Tesla, BMW, Audi or other top end cars plugged in all day as they’re for the exclusive use of managements company cars, if a visitor turned up on business that was in need of a boost I’d put money on it the answer would be no, after all if a site has bunkered diesel for the delivery vehicles you wouldn’t dream of trying to scrounge a few litres to get you to a fuel station.
@Illaveago has a valid point, the petrol stations will have to have a huge change in design in order to accommodate as many EV’s as possible, even then your likely to be disappointed, someone on business doesn’t have time to be hanging about while their vehicle charges, they have things to do, places to go, this is also where EV’s fall down, they do work for private owners with a bit of forward planning, and taking the opportunity for a break, but even then a planned stop can turn into a long wait, especially when motorway services fine you for overstaying
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
I was having a think the other day . I was on a trip over to the Dartford area and on the way stopped off at several motorway services . Membury on the M4 had 2 charging points which were in use . The cars were still there after my pit stop . I can't remember seeing any places at the other services on the way . On the way back we stopped off at Newbury on the M3 . Here there were 12 Tesla charging points which will be put into use in the future .
I'm wondering as more petrol filling stations start to put charging points in will they gradually replace fuel pumps ?
My next thought was surely this will become uneconomical for the filling stations ? Filling up an ICE fuel tank with fuel takes less than 5 minutes . So on a busy day the filling station can serve a lot of customers . Now EV's take longer to charge , so the number of customers during a day will be a lot lower and so turnover will be lower . The filling stations won't be able to charge too much as people can charge at home . The idea that people will be able to spend their time shopping or doing leisure activities whilst charging seems to be pie in the sky! If queues are forming with people waiting to charge their vehicles whilst other people are swanning around staying longer than necessary this will lead to frustration and anger .
To me it just seems that the whole thing hasn't been thoroughly thought through ! :angry:

Charging at home, reduces chance you will need to charge whilst shopping. Shopping is usually a local trip.

Rapid chargers can add hundreds of miles in less than one hour. If you went shopping or to a leisure area, you're unlikely need to charge, see above.

If on a longer journey, rapid chargers are required. If you overstay after your car is topped up, bay blocking fees are added. These excess stay fees are extremely expensive.

Tesla for example will limit the charge to 80% at busy sites. Charging above 80% is where the rate of charge is much lower. I get a notification saying my car is nearing this level, please return to remove your vehicle.

No one is going to leave their car racking up huge fees blocking others from charging. At non Tesla charging stations, you can't charge unless you have a validated payment via contactless or in Tesla's case a valid card on their system.

As more EVs are bought, more charging points will be installed, eventually I expect every parking bay will have a charge point. Most will be 7kw for those drivers who are adding 20-30 miles whilst shopping etc. Work places again will have chargers installed for their driving workforce.

My wife installed two chargers for her staff, which back then had hybrids and for her to charge her Tesla when in the office. They would happily swap vehicles once a car had been topped up. Please don't suggest it's wasting work time, smokers get several breaks a day to have a cancer stick, so time it takes to move a vehicle is far less. Her system had NFC dongles for those authorised to charge from work.

There is a shift already taking place to EV transport. Once you have an EV, the adaption to the way you use it, charging etc, is a doddle.

I've had full EVs a relatively short period, 4 years maybe. At one point we had three EVs in the family with only one 7kW dedicated chargers and an 13amp socket. It was no issue keep these vehicles charged for their uses. We have well over 100k miles of use now, drive 120miles a day mostly with our Nissan Leaf.

Every morning it's ready to go charged up for its daily drives.
 

Chislenko

Veteran
there will be more income from co-located businesses and franchises such as coffee and food outlets, because charging a car is something you ideally do whilst doing something else (generally spending money).

So one should factor in the price of an overpriced Costa coffee and a dried up sausage roll when thinking about buying an EV!
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
- does anyone actually look forward to a time when a long stay at a hell-hole of a motorway services becomes the norm on a long journey? I've always made a point of avoiding them like the plague.

They're only a hell hole if you enter the facilities from than carpark.
 
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FishFright

More wheels than sense
- does anyone actually look forward to a time when a long stay at a hell-hole of a motorway services becomes the norm on a long journey? I've always made a point of avoiding them like the plague.

Carry on avoiding them by using off motorway charging . My driving friends never fill up on motorway service station but google the nearest normal petrol station.
 
I was having a think the other day . I was on a trip over to the Dartford area and on the way stopped off at several motorway services . Membury on the M4 had 2 charging points which were in use . The cars were still there after my pit stop . I can't remember seeing any places at the other services on the way . On the way back we stopped off at Newbury on the M3 . Here there were 12 Tesla charging points which will be put into use in the future .
I'm wondering as more petrol filling stations start to put charging points in will they gradually replace fuel pumps ?
My next thought was surely this will become uneconomical for the filling stations ? Filling up an ICE fuel tank with fuel takes less than 5 minutes . So on a busy day the filling station can serve a lot of customers . Now EV's take longer to charge , so the number of customers during a day will be a lot lower and so turnover will be lower . The filling stations won't be able to charge too much as people can charge at home . The idea that people will be able to spend their time shopping or doing leisure activities whilst charging seems to be pie in the sky! If queues are forming with people waiting to charge their vehicles whilst other people are swanning around staying longer than necessary this will lead to frustration and anger .
To me it just seems that the whole thing hasn't been thoroughly thought through ! :angry:

Every services that I know has EV chargers. You've just not noticed.

I believe shopping at petrol stations is very profitable for the forecourt - that's why so many of them have a shop.

Looking at the layout of the petrol pumps it's a bit inefficienct compared to parking bays. You'd fit in more spaces for charging than you would filling with petrol.

Depending on the speeds of the charger and how big your battery is - it's not that much longer than filling with petrol now.

Last time I charged away from home I think it was about 20 minutes to get enough charge in.
By the time you've been for a wee, and grabbed a coffee it's almost time to go again.


I don't think you've thought this through.
 
- does anyone actually look forward to a time when a long stay at a hell-hole of a motorway services becomes the norm on a long journey? I've always made a point of avoiding them like the plague.

It won't be that long and there will be plenty of options off the motorway - businesses offering charging to lure you in for breakfast or a coffee or whatever.
 
As I’ve said before, a lot of companies have charging points, not loads of them, but invariably they have a Tesla, BMW, Audi or other top end cars plugged in all day as they’re for the exclusive use of managements company cars, if a visitor turned up on business that was in need of a boost I’d put money on it the answer would be no, after all if a site has bunkered diesel for the delivery vehicles you wouldn’t dream of trying to scrounge a few litres to get you to a fuel station.
@Illaveago has a valid point, the petrol stations will have to have a huge change in design in order to accommodate as many EV’s as possible, even then your likely to be disappointed, someone on business doesn’t have time to be hanging about while their vehicle charges, they have things to do, places to go, this is also where EV’s fall down, they do work for private owners with a bit of forward planning, and taking the opportunity for a break, but even then a planned stop can turn into a long wait, especially when motorway services fine you for overstaying

It'd be a short sighted company that wouldn't put a charger in - especially if you sell things or don't want to look like a stick in the mud.

When I was working we would provide coffees and sometimes lunches for our suppliers. We'd not charge them for this. Why would a bit of electric be an issue?
^_^
 
At the moment the government gets duty on fuel from filling stations . This is going to reduce as more EV's become common .
Some people talk about road pricing but I see this as an expensive way of collecting duty . It would be better if they came up with a system of taxing electric for road use only . Perhaps a designated plug which would be standardised for all vehicles . For home use it would have to be taxed or leased so that you couldn't charge it at domestic rates . We can't make our own petrol so why should EV's not pay tax ?
 
Every services that I know has EV chargers. You've just not noticed.

I believe shopping at petrol stations is very profitable for the forecourt - that's why so many of them have a shop.

Looking at the layout of the petrol pumps it's a bit inefficienct compared to parking bays. You'd fit in more spaces for charging than you would filling with petrol.

Depending on the speeds of the charger and how big your battery is - it's not that much longer than filling with petrol now.

Last time I charged away from home I think it was about 20 minutes to get enough charge in.
By the time you've been for a wee, and grabbed a coffee it's almost time to go again.


I don't think you've thought this through.

The service stations I have visited have very few charging points . I was surprised to see 12 at one on the M3. You may be well served with charging points where you live but down here there are few .
They are there as an additional source of income . The station only gets a few pennies per litre . For them to just sell electric they will need to sell it at a higher rate to make up for the loss of income . A simple way that accountant's would look at it would be to say that each square foot of charging space needs to make a certain amount of £s per hour .
I am thinking this through !
 

midlife

Guru
Thinking of chargers, there is one on my drive. I'll take a pic and maybe someone can tell me what sort it is. Just curious.
 
Newbury isn’t on the M3…??

Anyway, the economics will change. Whilst the income from charging may differ compared to from fuel, there will be more income from co-located businesses and franchises such as coffee and food outlets, because charging a car is something you ideally do whilst doing something else (generally spending money). And just like fuel on motorways, I see no reason why they can’t charge more for power on major routes regardless of home charging - if you need power you’ll pay for it. There are also a lot more subscription models for charging, meaning the suppliers are making a steady monthly income even if you don’t charge.

Sorry ! It was Fleet Services .
 
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