Are we being forced to go electric?

[lazybloke]

99% by HGV so the remaining damage done by millions of car/van vehicles is 1%. Having heavier cars is a gnat's poo worth of extra damage

I dunno. Cars have been getting heavier for decades and they massively outnumber larger vehicles.
CArs also offer greater accelerations (in all directions). Heavier vehicles are slow, and spread their weight over larger tyres, more tyres, and even more axles.


I strongly suspect cars are responsible for far more than 1% of road damage. It will vary widely by road of course, motorway construction should be rather more robust than country lanes, for example, so the % figure will differ accordingly.

Car weight increase of recent years is continuing with electrification.
When I was young, a large family car weighed in at under a ton. A modest petrol golf is still about 1250kg.
A TeslaY starts at over 1,900 kg. Even a Leaf starts at about 1,600kg. Yet roads haven't been pulled up and rebuilt to cope with these heavier weights. Is it any wonder they are suffering? How will that increase as more cars go electric?

I know there will be weight savings with solid-state batteries, but it's not enough.
I'd like manufacturers to focus on weight savings, economy, long-term reliability and build quality. Thankfully I think there are several who prioritise some of these above stupid gimmics and ridiculous acceleration.

 

[Chislenko]

I think one solution they tried to reduce road degredation was "concrete roads" A section of the M54 was built from it but the road noise when traveling on it was horrendous.

You wouldn't want to live by it!

 

[Andy in Germany]

Fleet is 25% down on what they had, with problems caused by the charging system leading to five being removed from service. There are no replacements available.
And its classed as "promising"?

And no word as far as I can tell, when replacements will be available. Nor when they will be. Nor is there any word on the other customers who paid 20 000 us$ deposit five years ago.

 

[CXRAndy]

I dunno. Cars have been getting heavier for decades and they massively outnumber larger vehicles.
CArs also offer greater accelerations (in all directions). Heavier vehicles are slow, and spread their weight over larger tyres, more tyres, and even more axles.


I strongly suspect cars are responsible for far more than 1% of road damage. It will vary widely by road of course, motorway construction should be rather more robust than country lanes, for example, so the % figure will differ accordingly.

Car weight increase of recent years is continuing with electrification.
When I was young, a large family car weighed in at under a ton. A modest petrol golf is still about 1250kg.
A TeslaY starts at over 1,900 kg. Even a Leaf starts at about 1,600kg. Yet roads haven't been pulled up and rebuilt to cope with these heavier weights. Is it any wonder they are suffering? How will that increase as more cars go electric?

I know there will be weight savings with solid-state batteries, but it's not enough.
I'd like manufacturers to focus on weight savings, economy, long-term reliability and build quality. Thankfully I think there are several who prioritise some of these above stupid gimmics and ridiculous acceleration.

Have you not seen the inside lane of motorway or trunk roads, the lane has literally grooves worn in them . Compare that to the outside right lane. I have stood next to a HGV and seen the road compress under the wheels as it rolled by. They do contribute to nearly all road damage.

Its the fourth power formula -why didn't we all know this

The analysis uses the “fourth power formula”, which is widely used by highways engineers and researchers to assess the damage caused to road surfaces by heavier vehicles. It means that if weight on a vehicle's axle is doubled, it does 16 times the damage to the road.26 Jun 2023

Yes EV are heavier, but it's a feeble argument against them, when they have so many pollution reducing benefits.

The acceleration is just a by product of the electric motor.. Even my lowly Nissan Leaf can out perform many other cars and will surprise all but the most powerful ice cars in mid range acceleration

 

[CXRAndy]

They haven't got anywhere near the 50+ that were promised. Nor are they likely to get the full order placed and promised.

The charger was the problem.
And is currently before the courts, again for patent infringement. Paperwork filed last week, with the Texas court system.

Their charger network may yet be switched off.

It's early days, they only came onto the roads this year. Tesla said production will ramp up to 50,000 semi trucks per year.

Going on past figures from their car production, I cannot see any reason not to believe them.

Who filed this dispute re Teslas superchargers?

 

[Chislenko]

I am assuming we haven't been transported to the US of A and by "semis" we are talking articulated lorries?

 

[CXRAndy]

I am assuming we haven't been transported to the US of A and by "semis" we are talking articulated lorries?

Yes, if you want to call them that. They're only in USA currently

 

[biggs682]

We see several e powered small delivery vans operating In our local area by DHL and DPD .

I wonder what range these have ?

 

[CXRAndy]

We see several e powered small delivery vans operating In our local area by DHL and DPD .

I wonder what range these have ?

To-date, DPD has invested over £90m on all-electric vehicles in the UK, including the most recent order of 1,000 Ford E-Transit vans in May 2022, which will take DPD's electric vehicle fleet to over 2,500 in total.

The company, which hasn't bought a diesel van since summer 2020, expects to deliver 26 million parcels this year on electric vehicles, a saving of 7,200,000kg of CO2.

DHL

Following last year’s introduction of 50 electric vans to operate out of sites across the UK, this next phase demonstrates the business’ ongoing commitment to reaching its sustainability goals and the successful integration of electric vehicles into the network. By 2030, the business is committed to a 100% electric UK-wide courier fleet.

The 270 new vans will enter operation between May and September, servicing over 30 different locations, including London, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol, Southampton Liverpool, Sheffield, Edinburgh, and Glasgow.

The zero emissions Ford E-Transits have a range of 140 miles and a payload of approximately 1000 kg, similar to the diesel vans they are replacing.

Ive seen quite a few electric vans, including our royal mail postie has had one over a year.

Postal service the Royal Mail has reached a new milestone after deploying its 4000th electric delivery van from its Blackpool office.

The Blackpool site will increase its number of electric vehicles to 90 over the coming months, with all delivery and collection functions operated by an EVs.

The Royal Mail has expanded its fleet of electric vans to help lower its carbon footprint, with the aim of becoming net zero by 2024.

The organisation hopes to reduce its average carbon emissions per parcel delivery in the UK from 205gCO2e to 50gCO2e.

Last summer the Royal Mail announced it would grow its fleet of e-delivery vans, with Peugeot supplying 2000 new e-Expert and e-Partner vehicles. By the end of Spring, the delivery giant hopes to have 5000 electric vans within its fleet.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://youtu.be/u0Gu22yrQTE


Just about everyone has jumped onto the open NACS Tesla charging standard, FORD GM Volvo, Rivian. CCS is dead in the USA.

 

[CXRAndy]

ULEZ scrappage scheme is in huge demand before Sept 1st

Suddenly all those who proclaimed they couldn't afford the transition are getting on board

 

[Beebo]

I think one solution they tried to reduce road degredation was "concrete roads" A section of the M54 was built from it but the road noise when traveling on it was horrendous.

You wouldn't want to live by it!

The M25 between j8 and j11 is also concrete. It’s an awful driving experience.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I am assuming we haven't been transported to the US of A and by "semis" we are talking articulated lorries?

Fair comment. I'm referring to what in the UK/EU would be a large goods vehicle, max 44t when loaded. These are not identical to a US "Semi" but the comparison is fair as this is the largest size that can cross borders.

The weight of batteries would reduce the payload on an EV version, as seen upthread the payload on a Tesla Semi is comparable to a much smaller European three axle truck. This may create calls for the 70t megaliners to be allowed across Europe causing even more damage. However, my understanding is that European manufacturers are making smaller EV trucks with more limited range for local distribution as this is a much more realistic proposition. Hopefully this will result in long distance freight being carried by rail and boat with local distribution by lorries. This will however, mean some alteration in how we operate, plan and locate businesses so is likely to encounter some opposition. Enter the snake oil salesmen.

 

[classic33]

We see several e powered small delivery vans operating In our local area by DHL and DPD .

I wonder what range these have ?

Around the 70 miles per charge mark. The vans can't hold a full load either to get to that distance.

 

[biggs682]

Around the 70 miles per charge mark. The vans can't hold a full load either to get to that distance.

It's got to be better than a smokey old transit or whatever doing it surely