Are we going to go back to the old days

[Profpointy]

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

 

[Alex321]

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

At home, we do that to an extent. My wife quite regularly makes jams, marmalade, chutneys, but we do also buy some, and usual,y keep the jars for re-use.

We still end up putting g some into the recycling, but not as much as we otherwise would.

 

[HobbesOnTour]

As a non-British person I am always bemused by the negativity displayed towards attempts to improve things, normally using systems that work well elsewhere.
I can't imagine getting anything off the ground in such a dark cloud.
If I start off something thinking that it's never going to work, the chances are, that it will never work.

Yes, there's litter and dumping. With no statistics to hand I'd imagine that most of that littering is coming from a small cohort of the population. Changing the attitudes of 80% of the population is not required, only maybe 10%-20%. That is manageable. Whether by carrot, stick or both.

I lived in the Netherlands for 20 years and a deposit scheme was in operation. Return bottles to a machine in the supermarket and get a credit note or donate to a nominated (local) charity. It didn't apply to the smaller bottles nor cans and interestingly, didn't apply in Belgium. Cue lots of Belgians crossing the border with deposit free bottles to claim a deposit in NL (only for those bottles that were the same in both markets).

In Spain, the Catalonian government is considering the same system - for cigarettes! Pay a deposit on each pack and get your money back by returning the fag ends! There's little support for the idea in the rest of Spain so it probably won't get off the ground anytime soon. Interesting idea, though.

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

That system is in operation in NL for beer bottles. All the main breweries use (or at least used to) a standard bottle - only the labelling is different. They are all shareholders in the one company that "owns" all the bottles (not sure about the crates as they are all individual).
It's expensive to set up, requires cooperation between competitors, some may lose the individuality of their bottle design and it acts as a barrier to entry for smaller, independent breweries. That last part is illegal, of course, but it takes a whole lot of money to take on the might of the Dutch brewing industry. (And those same brewers were caught price fixing in the nineties)

When we look at other products, especially top end products, bottle design is often integral to the image of the product and producers will be loathe to concede their individuality.

The point is that it's complicated, requires thought, goodwill, co-operation and perhaps law to encourage all of that. And even with all that, there can still be negative effects.

 

[BoldonLad]

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

An incredibly sensible idea, if only we had an international organisation to create and enforce the standard.

 

[tom73]

This is all fair, sadly. I've never seen anyone taking glass recycling onto a bus though; the bins are generally within a few km of most homes. A lot of people also use hand carts.

I notice that our in-house restaurant is part of a scheme where you pay a deposit on plates for takeaways and you can hand them in at any participating business to redeem your deposit: they are currently trying it out to see how well it works.

It helps that glass deposit bottles have long been a part of the picture.

I'm not that enthusiastic about the idea of homeless people gathering bottles as a great idea: it's not inherently bad, but apart from the feeling that it would be better to have something organised, an informal system carries the inherent risk of someone claiming 'rights' to a certain place to collect bottles.

It can also be used as an excuse not to help people "because they're doing fine collecting bottles". One idea that has started here (because Germans wil organise the cr*p out of anything) is that bottle machines now have an option to donate the deposits to the local food bank. Some later tried different charities like sport clubs for a while I don't think that was continued, fortunately.

I'm not all that comfortable with homeless going round and collecting them either. I was just pointing out a way to be proactive to the fact that it will happen and allowing it to be done safety. The problems you've outlined are very valid and I agree. The real big one for me is it becomes another get out for society to deal with the fact they are homeless in first place.

Several things spring to mind..
Currently, those that can be bothered recycle plastics do so via their local council refuse collections, right on thir doorstep. Is this to change ? I doubt it as there other recyclables local councils collect, so that (probably) deals with those with no cars etc
I say 'can be bothered' because as we all know, people are lazy, streets and public areas are littered with plastic bottles and carp. People who do that (probably ) won't change. However, kids, people that do car will have a financial incentive to pick the stuff up. I do it for free, no reason a few wouldnt pick up the habit.
Assuming manufacturers have targets, how do you separate out stuff placed in banks and stuff that goes to local council recycling...could be a little earner for local authorities.

Either way, I'm all for it. Whether it will change attitudes remains to be seen.

Your right collections in place won't change. This return option is a deposit one talk is setting it at 20p which will be added to what you pay.
Unless it's freely available and practical to return them ones with least income end up paying even more in the long run.

What was not clear was just how wide spread the plan was to allow everyone to have equal access to it. Hence why I commented about it the first place. Having looked into this it will be wide spread and so accessible to most. As for LA they too will be free to join the scheme which should help off set income lost from less ending up in household recycling bins. keeping waste steams apart will be something the chosen operator and other parties have to work out.

I say again I'm not anti this and for me this is only a start for really needs to be done to sort out the mess we've made of the planet.
All I was doing was derring to think of others in way worse situations than me. Seeing and dealing with what I do day in day out you see how crap society is at stuff that really matters. I aren't keen on bringing in yet another way to make it even worse.

 

[Profpointy]

As a non-British person I am always bemused by the negativity displayed towards attempts to improve things, normally using systems that work well elsewhere.
I can't imagine getting anything off the ground in such a dark cloud.
If I start off something thinking that it's never going to work, the chances are, that it will never work.

Yes, there's litter and dumping. With no statistics to hand I'd imagine that most of that littering is coming from a small cohort of the population. Changing the attitudes of 80% of the population is not required, only maybe 10%-20%. That is manageable. Whether by carrot, stick or both.

I lived in the Netherlands for 20 years and a deposit scheme was in operation. Return bottles to a machine in the supermarket and get a credit note or donate to a nominated (local) charity. It didn't apply to the smaller bottles nor cans and interestingly, didn't apply in Belgium. Cue lots of Belgians crossing the border with deposit free bottles to claim a deposit in NL (only for those bottles that were the same in both markets).

In Spain, the Catalonian government is considering the same system - for cigarettes! Pay a deposit on each pack and get your money back by returning the fag ends! There's little support for the idea in the rest of Spain so it probably won't get off the ground anytime soon. Interesting idea, though.



That system is in operation in NL for beer bottles. All the main breweries use (or at least used to) a standard bottle - only the labelling is different. They are all shareholders in the one company that "owns" all the bottles (not sure about the crates as they are all individual).
It's expensive to set up, requires cooperation between competitors, some may lose the individuality of their bottle design and it acts as a barrier to entry for smaller, independent breweries. That last part is illegal, of course, but it takes a whole lot of money to take on the might of the Dutch brewing industry. (And those same brewers were caught price fixing in the nineties)

When we look at other products, especially top end products, bottle design is often integral to the image of the product and producers will be loathe to concede their individuality.

The point is that it's complicated, requires thought, goodwill, co-operation and perhaps law to encourage all of that. And even with all that, there can still be negative effects.

An incredibly sensible idea, if only we had an international organisation to create and enforce the standard.

That occurred to me too. Just the thing best handled by cross-national agreement, but I hesitated to suggest a thing as it risked undermining the message

 

[oldwheels]

During the war years glass jars and bottles were sometimes a kind of currency. Some places you got money but they were also used by kids as payment to get into film shows for example.
I remember Tarzan of the Apes and some cowboy films in the public hall in Maddiston near Falkirk and the entrance fee was something like two jam jars per person.
I am really ancient.

 

[Slick]

During the war years glass jars and bottles were sometimes a kind of currency. Some places you got money but they were also used by kids as payment to get into film shows for example.
I remember Tarzan of the Apes and some cowboy films in the public hall in Maddiston near Falkirk and the entrance fee was something like two jam jars per person.
I am really ancient.

Love it.

 

[tyred]

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

That used to be the case surely? Milk bottles went back to be sterilised for a start but I remember my uncle owned a pub when I was very young and aged about 7, I used to be sort out all the bottles as Guinness bottles went back to Guinness, Smithwicks bottles went back to Smithwicks etc and we re-used by the bottling plants. Nowadays they just seem to be smashed up and recycled which I would consider a retrograde step but I'm sure it probably works out cheaper as there is there is less labour involved and it's probably easier to transport a big bin of smashed glass.

 

[Andy in Germany]

I don't understand why we recycle glass as opposed to re-using bottles. The first step would be to mandate that all food products must be in one of an approved set of bottles or jars in various sizes. There'd then only need to be one set of bottle cleaning machinery, and it would be fine for a jam jar to be refilled with honey, or goose fat. I would suspect the efficiency savings would actually make things cheaper

Many glass deposit bottles here are washed, sterilised and reused. Apparently it's generally possible up to 11 times.

Of course it slightly tarnishes the green image that they're mostly bottled water, but still...

 

[KnittyNorah]

Yes. Cos empty bottles and cans weigh so much...

I can see it becoming a problem if someone uses online ordering and home delivery - for whatever reason, lack of mobility, no personal transport, distance from shops etc etc. However, I expect the supermarkets which provide these services will soon find a way to offer a 'returns' service - perhaps with less credit than if you take them back yourself - for the empty bottles and cans, just as the delivery drivers will take back plastic bags.

 

[stephec]

When they were younger did anyone else nip over the wall of the off licence and 'borrow' a few bottles to return to a different shop down the road?

 

[Stephenite]

I can see it becoming a problem if someone uses online ordering and home delivery - for whatever reason, lack of mobility, no personal transport, distance from shops etc etc. However, I expect the supermarkets which provide these services will soon find a way to offer a 'returns' service - perhaps with less credit than if you take them back yourself - for the empty bottles and cans, just as the delivery drivers will take back plastic bags.

What happens in these parts is the delivery driver takes back the empties, and your account is credited with the deposit (the 20p, or whatever.) Just like in the old days.

 

[DRM]

When they were younger did anyone else nip over the wall of the off licence and 'borrow' a few bottles to return to a different shop down the road?

Went one better, over the fence of the local drinks supplier, get some bottles & take them back to the off license using the proceeds for sweets or a bag of chips

 

[PaulSB]

Like many commenting here I'm old enough to have collected and returned bottles as a kid. I don't know how much we got per bottle but it was obviously worth it.

20p? I can't see this having a serious impact on the problem. It's no great incentive, especially for those who currently chuck bottles in the hedgerow. My household is rigorous about recycling everything so I'm fully engaged but if local authorities continue to collect from the house I doubt I'd save bottles at 20p each especially as we probably only use 5 a month - at most.

What I would like to happen is either for household packaging to be banned (won't happen) or for retailers, supermarkets in particular, to be forced to take this back with a strong financial incentive for consumers.

I estimate 90% of my non-recyclable waste, landfill, is food and other household packaging. I would happily collect and return this.