Armstrong charged and banned

[lukesdad]

Why do the pro LA supporters seem to think it's us who are leading the enquiry/witch-hunt ( delete as applicable).

It's the US cycling authorities - his own federation! We have little influence sadly other than comment and speculation.
How anyone can conflate the timing and the TdF is beyond me.

FWIW Im no big Tex supporter !

I can't help feeling after the Cofidis debacle and illness, he looked at my previous examples and concluded that was how to get on in pro cycling. Looking at him before these events, for example when he won the world champs he was a totally different person.

 

[ColinJ]

Who gives a toss whether he was using drugs or not, the chances are he was, practically the WHOLE peloton was on something or other back then. The guy virtually came off his death bed to win 7 Tours, get off his back!

I do! I want to watch something real not something fake.

The parents of the young cyclists who died as a result of epo abuse probably give a very big toss about it too, and how about the clean athletes who never got their chance to win because they were beaten easily by drugged-up cheats who never even got out of breath?

Drugs and blood-doping reduce athletic competition to a blood-sport won by the most sneaky and those most willing to risk death.

If you allow drug cheats to get away with it then you might as well legalise bare-fist boxing and bring back gladiators.

As for the "everyone is doing it" argument... It didn't really stand up in court after the recent riots, did it!

Armstrong swore after recovering from cancer that he would never risk his health by using drugs, so if he did then he is a fool as well as a cheat! Many of the drugs abused by athletes actually increase the risk of cancer.

 

[Scoosh]

An interesting graphic towards bottom of the page:

http://www.cyclingtips.com.au/2012/06/what-a-mess/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: cyclingtipsblog/TJog (Cycling Tips)

... and an interesting suggestion for a 'Way Out' from one of the Comments following that article:

JBS​

In some ways if he goes down for doping in 2009/10 but not the 99 to 05; that could be a good result for all. Lance gets done as a cheat (drug crusaders happy), but keeps his wins (Lance and maybe ASO happy). The wins would then be seen in the same light as Pantani, and Contador's (and Riis' and Ullrich's, et-bloody-depressing-cetera), ie won by a convicted/admitted drug cheat, but there is no evidence against them those years.​

That's the only silver lining I can take out of this whole mess​

 

[just jim]

Oh I wouldn't call it bile, it's more like gloating

That he was/wasn't the most successful doping/non doping (whichever you believe) cyclist of an era of doping misses the point I think. Armstrong built himself an empire around his 'non doping'. He's made such a big thing of being the "most tested athlete". This sticks in the throat of anyone, like me, that believes he was as doped to the gills as the next guy on the podium. As for the 'those that don't believe in miracles' speech, well. If guilty, he's set himself up for the fall.

For what it's worth, and in reference to the undoubted doping of that era, should Armstrong be stripped of the wins (and I have no strong opinion on that either way) then I don't think you'll see the jerseys given to anyone else. I think the results will merely have an asterisk by them to indicate 'no winner'. I think it will just become known as the doping era.

Aren't we still in it?

 

[iainw]

The timing of it all is fascinating, why now?!

 

[lukesdad]

I do! I want to watch something real not something fake.

The parents of the young cyclists who died as a result of epo abuse probably give a very big toss about it too, and how about the clean athletes who never got their chance to win because they were beaten easily by drugged-up cheats who never even got out of breath?

Drugs and blood-doping reduce athletic competition to a blood-sport won by the most sneaky and those most willing to risk death.

If you allow drug cheats to get away with it then you might as well legalise bare-fist boxing and bring back gladiators.

As for the "everyone is doing it" argument... It didn't really stand up in court after the recent riots, did it!

Armstrong swore after recovering from cancer that he would never risk his health by using drugs, so if he did then he is a fool as well as a cheat! Many of the drugs abused by athletes actually increase the risk of cancer.

Ask yourself this,who or what is fuelling the drugs cheats ? Could it be the demand of the Inhuman feats it takes to win a grand tour or a world championship, or simply the demand for 24/7 eurosport coverage of pro cycle racing required by some of the posters on here for instance.

Unlike some i do not believe drug abuse is rife in other sports, there are examples but no where like cycling. its the demands of pro racing that are the cause of the monster.

 

[MacB]

Ask yourself this,who or what is fuelling the drugs cheats ? Could it be the demand of the Inhuman feats it takes to win a grand tour or a world championship, or simply the demand for 24/7 eurosport coverage of pro cycle racing required by some of the posters on here for instance.

Unlike some i do not believe drug abuse is rife in other sports, there are examples but no where like cycling. its the demands of pro racing that are the cause of the monster.

I've wondered this as I used to take the attitude of just let them use drugs, but I'm not so sure now. Obviously a huge factor will be money which encapsulates the whole corporate media shebang. But I also know full well that people will cheat to win when absolutely nothing is at stake. In fact I've met plenty of people who, rather than expressing chagrin at their own cheating, would be more likely to express amazement that you were not prepared to do the same. I've even been told once, when I had to deal with a fairly serious incidence of internal fraud, that I'd have done the same if I wasn't such a coward.

It's the mindset that says cheating isn't wrong it's getting caught that's the problem. At elite levels in sport, business and politics this is rife. I think the drugs aspect is often considered more heinous just because of the potential for damaging physical side effects.

 

[Crankarm]

Let's not forget too, that this is not just about Armstrong but about several others who are still working in pro-cycling, most notably Radioshack-Nissan manager, Johan Buyneel, and Pedro Alcaya, who is a doctor to several top cyclists including most notably... the brothers Schleck.

And, it might be simple coincidence but you have to wonder at the timing of big George Hincapie's retirement announcement and the non-selection of Chris Horner for the Tour this year.

There are an awful lot of co-incidences in your conspiracy theory.

 

[Crankarm]

The idiot news reader on Classic FM last night referred to David Mellor being able to ride for cyclingTeam GB rather than David Millar .....................

Easy mistake to make I guess.

 

[Boris Bajic]

I do! I want to watch something real not something fake.

The parents of the young cyclists who died as a result of epo abuse probably give a very big toss about it too, and how about the clean athletes who never got their chance to win because they were beaten easily by drugged-up cheats who never even got out of breath?

Drugs and blood-doping reduce athletic competition to a blood-sport won by the most sneaky and those most willing to risk death.

If you allow drug cheats to get away with it then you might as well legalise bare-fist boxing and bring back gladiators.

As for the "everyone is doing it" argument... It didn't really stand up in court after the recent riots, did it!

Armstrong swore after recovering from cancer that he would never risk his health by using drugs, so if he did then he is a fool as well as a cheat! Many of the drugs abused by athletes actually increase the risk of cancer.

Yours is a noble post. None of us wants to appear to support something tainted. I admire your stance, but I disagree.

I adore the Tour and despite the grime.

If you want to watch something real rather than fake, and if you equate fakery with endemic drug use, then which decade, year or even single stage of the Tour represents a period when it was worthy of your attention?

I am almost 50 and do not believe there has been a clean Tour in my lifetime. To my mind, that does not make it fake.

There have been many epic Tours and countless personal performances of quite extraordinary courage and skill.

But by your analysis, almost all were fake. I admire your stance, but I disagree.

 

[Dave Davenport]

Who gives a toss whether he was using drugs or not, the chances are he was, practically the WHOLE peloton was on something or other back then. The guy virtually came off his death bed to win 7 Tours, get off his back!

I believe that he was a great athlete and won what he did on a pretty level playing field and if he'd retired after winning his 7th tour and basically did a 'no comment' as far as drugs go I wouldn't mind. But he didn't so I'm not sad to see his reputation being tarnished.

On a postitive note; I think last years tour was probably the cleanest in years and really hope that I can say the same about this years in a few weeks time.

 

[Crankarm]

Either way expect a big big fight. LA is not a quitter. It may well turn ugly for a lot of people in high places and will run for a long time over shadowing TdFs past, present and future. It could well bring down the world of Pro Cyling.

 

[fozy tornip]

The parents of the young cyclists who died as a result of epo abuse probably give a very big toss about it too, and how about the clean athletes who never got their chance to win because they were beaten easily by drugged-up cheats who never even got out of breath?

"Losers", in Lance-speak.
The Armstrong story can't satisfy as tragedy, can't achieve the necessary narrative arc, until we move on from hubris. Hopefully USADA can serve up the nemesis.

 

[Zofo]

I do! I want to watch something real not something fake.

Such as in the Golden Days when Copi, Mallejac, Rivière, Anquetil, Simpson, Mercx, Yates, Kelly & Pantani where racing ? All dopers .
The Tour and professional cycling has never been "real" !

 

[Hont]

There is a strong argument for the "everybody was doing it, so you can't blame him" angle when Armstrong was winning 7 tours. However just about everyone he shared a podium with on those tours has faced some sort of sanction, so why shouldn't he?

What sticks in the craw was that he watched the 2008 tour - Winner Sastre, 2nd Evans - and rather than think "cycling's a lot cleaner now, I should come back and race clean" he thought "I can kick their asses [by cheating]". That is simply deplorable.