Armstrong coming back for the 2009 TdF

[Kovu]

OK, let's get to the bottom line: He is a twat.

Noodley wisdom!

Bottom line: Yeah I'll agree with that!

 

[Chuffy]

I mean what about Phelps?

What about him? Unless I'm very wrong he's just a cocky prat. No crime in that, so is Cavendish.

Armstrong is definitely a twat, but a thoroughly nasty twat.

 

[Kovu]

Phelps i think was convicted of drink driving ... alot was said about it a while ago, and I put myself firmly on his side, simply because i don't think you should drag other stuff in apart from that performance of the person.

 

[Chuffy]

Phelps i think was convicted of drink driving ... alot was said about it a while ago, and I put myself firmly on his side, simply because i don't think you should drag other stuff in apart from that performance of the person.

Right. But that was something totally unconnected with his sport, yes? I wouldn't think any less of a sportsman if they wore their wife's pants, slurped tea from the saucer or had regular sessions of mutual pleasure with the labrador next door. Doesn't matter and I don't care. The way they behave within the sport, that's what matters.

 

[Kovu]

Fair enough, but he lost the respect of alot of people because of that.
I know Lance is a complete and utter twat, he's acted stupidly, he's an arse in the peloton, but that's him. I still admire him as a cyclist. If he turns out to be on drugs, I'll fully accept I was wrong, but i find it difficult to see him taking that risk now.

But just to clarify I do think he is a twat, but still admire his achievements.

 

[Chuffy]

But just to clarify I do think he is a twat, but still admire his achievements.

That's where I was about five years ago. But I've done a lot of reading and thinking since......

Anyways, I'm off to bed. Don't you have someone to flirt with in the Cafe?

 

[rich p]

Chuffy, top sportsmen are there for themselves, their egos and their bank balances. They and we shouldn't care if they're nice people to the camera and the mike. We want to watch excellence not Mother Theresas. I too prefer our 'heroes' to be photogenic, amusing, intelligent etc but driven people are rarely like that. The only rule that should stop them participating is cheating and the jury is still out on LA.

 

[Kovu]

That's where I was about five years ago. But I've done a lot of reading and thinking since......

Anyways, I'm off to bed. Don't you have someone to flirt with in the Cafe?

Well originally I didn't like the guy at all when i wasn't interested in cycling, I have gone a different way to everyone else!

Ohhh no he's annoyed with me now anyways.

 

[Crackle]

He has always behaved like a daffodil in the peloton. Other riders have done their share of bossing the peloton over the years but Lance, off and on the bikes, wins the prize every time. I don't know about you but I like sportsmen to offer a little more grace than that.

Is this not the crux of the matter, that he's not liked. Read his books, an inkling of what maketh the man is in them. The man is driven in a way that is extremely rare. Selfishness doesn't even cover it and every top sportsman is selfish and driven but he's a cut above them. He's always out to prove something. What and to whom I don't know, I suspect he doesn't either.

Like every multiple winner before him, he's out psyched every competitor before he's got to the race. Without realizing it they're riding the race in his way. Fools the lot of them. Look already at the comments in the press and here: He's coming back, he's going to win. He's half way there now. Truly incredible, that's what so bloody mesmerising.

Why did Lemond not beat Hinault the year he could have? Because Hinaults sheer presence made him doubt, made him stop. What made Roche's Giro win so incredible - he defied team orders, was spat on and pushed by the fans for doing so and still won.

This is all legendary stuff. Like I said before it was ever thus.

Did he dope? Did Merx, Anquetil, Roche, Pantani, Simpson. Does anyone do it now, will they in the future.

Riise; He's admitted it. I still remember the moment he dropped off the front of the group on a climb (Alpe d'Huez?), looked them all in the eye and then just exploded away and no-one followed, never mind the drugs, he'd psyched them in that moment, they'd lost because they couldn't look him in the eye. If you don't understand that, then you don't get it at all.

Yes they should be trying to make the sport clean but it doesn't detract from what's gone before because of the sheer animal effort involved in winning the Tour drugged up or not.

 

[Kovu]

Is this not the crux of the matter, that he's not liked. Read his books, an inkling of what maketh the man is in them. The man is driven in a way that is extremely rare. Selfishness doesn't even cover it and every top sportsman is selfish and driven but he's a cut above them. He's always out to prove something. What and to whom I don't know, I suspect he doesn't either.

Like every multiple winner before him, he's out psyched every competitor before he's got to the race. Without realizing it they're riding the race in his way. Fools the lot of them. Look already at the comments in the press and here: He's coming back, he's going to win. He's half way there now. Truly incredible, that's what so bloody mesmerising.

Why did Lemond not beat Hinault the year he could have? Because Hinaults sheer presence made him doubt, made him stop. What made Roche's Giro win so incredible - he defied team orders, was spat on and pushed by the fans for doing so and still won.

This is all legendary stuff. Like I said before it was ever thus.

Did he dope? Did Merx, Anquetil, Roche, Pantani, Simpson. Does anyone do it now, will they in the future.

Riise; He's admitted it. I still remember the moment he dropped off the front of the group on a climb (Alpe d'Huez?), looked them all in the eye and then just exploded away and no-one followed, never mind the drugs, he'd psyched them in that moment, they'd lost because they couldn't look him in the eye. If you don't understand that, then you don't get it at all.

Yes they should be trying to make the sport clean but it doesn't detract from what's gone before because of the sheer animal effort involved in winning the Tour drugged up or not.

Said better then I ever could Crackle! I have also read his book, and though struck with the sheer arrogance, I was also caught with his determination, he does seem to constantly be trying to prove something.

 

[Noodley]

1. Why did Lemond not beat Hinault the year he could have?

2. Did Merx, Anquetil, Roche, Pantani, Simpson. Does anyone do it now, will they in the future.

3. Riise; He's admitted it.

1. well, you could read about that and find out....too long for a forum reply.
2. yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And yes, yes.
3. but no remorse and thinks nobody cares....he does not "get it"

Not every pro cyclist dopes. The idea that it is acceptable to do so amongst fans only leads to it continuing...

 

[Chuffy]

Rich P, Crackle. What I'm talking about is very specific incidents (Bassons, Simeoni) and the way he behaved. I'm not talking about force of personality, or psyching out the peloton. That doesn't bother me, I don't expect nice. But the way he behaved in those two incidents said a great deal more to me than a ghost written biography ever could.

 

[rich p]

well this winter we could have been discussing how much we hate Cadel, whether Andy Schleck can make the next step, will Bertie be allowed in the TdF and La has given the forum a new lease of twaddle for us all to chew over. Good for Lance I say!!

 

[Kovu]

well this winter we could have been discussing how much we hate Cadel, whether Andy Schleck can make the next step, will Bertie be allowed in the TdF and La has given the forum a new lease of twaddle for us all to chew over. Good for Lance I say!!

Yes I'm a supporter of his now.
I agree Lance has given us all something to discuss and argue over.

 

[Crackle]

Rich P, Crackle. What I'm talking about is very specific incidents (Bassons, Simeoni) and the way he behaved. I'm not talking about force of personality, or psyching out the peloton. That doesn't bother me, I don't expect nice. But the way he behaved in those two incidents said a great deal more to me than a ghost written biography ever could.

Chuffy, I thought you were talking about whether it was good for the sport. That's what I was addressing. Yes is my answer, not no.

Noodley, it's more complex than that. Yes, I'm accepting what's gone before but I don't accept it should continue, I merely acknowledge that it probably will.

A long time ago I realized what was going on in top cycling, it made me feel bitterly, bitterly disappointed. I have learned to view it in a different light, re-learned the sheer buzz of adrenaline induced excitment as the key moment of a three week race unfolds in the space of a few seconds. I also have to remember that even on drugs in the best form of my life, I couldn't do a day of TdF riding.