Average watts

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

As discussed in the thread, Strava is not particularly accurate IME (I have used a PM for around 10 years). I think one of the main issues is its reliance on speed as part of its calculation. If you are going slowly (without a PM) it records an incredibly low power output, it can't factor in head winds or other conditions which mean you could go 3-4mph slower than normal but actually be cycling at a higher power output. As above, it doesn't factor in rider weight, aerodynamic profile and son on, all of which have a noticeable impact on power output.

Are you sure about that?

My understanding is that Strava's estimated power uses the weight you have told it for you and your bike.

On my ride last night, I initially forgot to assign any bike to the ebike ride, when I changed it to my ebike the estimate went up (~275W to 332W, when under 15.5mph I would have been getting ~250W for the ebike motor at max assistance).
Which made sense for the segment I was looking at that made me double-check the details I edited for the ride, because it was mostly a climb and so highly depends on W/Kg when wind speed/direction isn't significant... On my ebike last night, 1W/Kg (for power generated against the weight of everything on the ebike) would have been ~112W, it would have been ~109W on my hybrid and ~105W on my power meter equipped road bike.

 

[Mr.B-Campag]

To the OP slightly off topic but if your legs are always wrecked after your rides you're almost certainly riding too hard: assuming you wish to get fitter most of your rides should feel pretty easy. It's unlikely to be that great for your health either. Sorry if that's sucking eggs territory.

 

[esoxlucius]

To the OP slightly off topic but if your legs are always wrecked after your rides you're almost certainly riding too hard: assuming you wish to get fitter most of your rides should feel pretty easy. It's unlikely to be that great for your health either. Sorry if that's sucking eggs territory.

Not at all, I appreciate the feedback.

It's quite "lumpy" around where I live, whichever way I go I'm meeting gradient continuously. My average speed, if that can be used as some kind of yardstick is around the 28kph mark (17mph). I don't think that's too shabby, I'm 57 by the way, not that that makes any difference really, I've had older guys pass me with great comfort.

I go off feel more than anything. If I feel good I push on. If my legs feel a bit heavy I'll ease off a bit. At the moment there's a lot of hype over this zone 2 thing, it seems to be all the rage. Going off what people say zone 2 is, I suspect that's where most of my riding is done, with a small dollop of zone 3 maybe, but I don't think I ever go down to zone 1.

I never do full gas segments or anything like that, maybe I should, but zone 2 seems to be where I'm happiest at. I just go out and ride, I have no goals as such, no training programme or anything like that.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Are you sure about that?

My understanding is that Strava's estimated power uses the weight you have told it for you and your bike.

On my ride last night, I initially forgot to assign any bike to the ebike ride, when I changed it to my ebike the estimate went up (~275W to 332W, when under 15.5mph I would have been getting ~250W for the ebike motor at max assistance).
Which made sense for the segment I was looking at that made me double-check the details I edited for the ride, because it was mostly a climb and so highly depends on W/Kg when wind speed/direction isn't significant... On my ebike last night, 1W/Kg (for power generated against the weight of everything on the ebike) would have been ~112W, it would have been ~109W on my hybrid and ~105W on my power meter equipped road bike.

You could well be right, I have often assumed it didn't as on the occasions when I have ridden with others (both without actual power), it has generated very similar estimated readings where there is a significant weight difference between riders.

 

[presta]

Even the slightest uphill drag requires a huge increase in power to maintain speed.

There was a time when I used to wonder why some stretches of road were effortless, and others were inexplicably hard work. Then one day I bought a clinometer, and discovered there were hills where there appeared to be none.

About 150 W to do 27 km/h on the flat, but 225 W to do that speed on a 1% drag!

That makes your all-up weight 102kg!!

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

At the moment there's a lot of hype over this zone 2 thing, it seems to be all the rage. Going off what people say zone 2 is, I suspect that's where most of my riding is done, with a small dollop of zone 3 maybe, but I don't think I ever go down to zone 1.

Zone 2 comes in and out of fashion in cycles, it has been popular the last couple of years as Tadej Pogacar and his old coach talked about it a lot.

You'd he surprised what zones you may actually be riding in, you will probably be doing much more Zone 1 than you think as we all coast, freewheel much more than we think. I did 105km yesterday, my average power was mid zone 2 and my normalised power was upper end of zone 2. My actual power distribution across the six zones was as follows:

Zone 1 - 35%
Zone 2 - 25%
Zone 3 - 18%
Zone 4 - 12%
Zone 5 - 6%
Zone 6 - 4%

It is actually quite tricky to ride predominantly in one particular zone, you have to really monitor the effort and keep it very consistent throughout a ride.

 

[ColinJ]

That makes your all-up weight 102kg!!

Hmm... Yes, my numbers don't look quite right!

Another go with Bike Calculator...

• Me: 79 kg
• Bike, clothing, tools, spares and drink: 11 kg
• Clinchers
• On hoods
• 15 degrees C
• No wind (as if!)
• At/from 100 metres elevation

Flat = 139 W; 1% drag = 209 W

 

[ColinJ]

Zone 2 comes in and out of fashion in cycles, it has been popular the last couple of years as Tadej Pogacar and his old coach talked about it a lot.

You'd he surprised what zones you may actually be riding in, you will probably be doing much more Zone 1 than you think as we all coast, freewheel much more than we think. I did 105km yesterday, my average power was mid zone 2 and my normalised power was upper end of zone 2. My actual power distribution across the six zones was as follows:

Zone 1 - 35%
Zone 2 - 25%
Zone 3 - 18%
Zone 4 - 12%
Zone 5 - 6%
Zone 6 - 4%

It is actually quite tricky to ride predominantly in one particular zone, you have to really monitor the effort and keep it very consistent throughout a ride.

I agree. On this ride I spent 39% in zone 1, freewheeling on descents. The short bursts of zone 5 and zone 6 were on gradients of 10-15%. I didn't even manage to stick to zone 2 on the easier bits!

 

[esoxlucius]

Zone 2 comes in and out of fashion in cycles, it has been popular the last couple of years as Tadej Pogacar and his old coach talked about it a lot.

You'd he surprised what zones you may actually be riding in, you will probably be doing much more Zone 1 than you think as we all coast, freewheel much more than we think. I did 105km yesterday, my average power was mid zone 2 and my normalised power was upper end of zone 2. My actual power distribution across the six zones was as follows:

Zone 1 - 35%
Zone 2 - 25%
Zone 3 - 18%
Zone 4 - 12%
Zone 5 - 6%
Zone 6 - 4%

It is actually quite tricky to ride predominantly in one particular zone, you have to really monitor the effort and keep it very consistent throughout a ride.

That type of information is a distant dream for an old luddite such as myself, but it is very interesting nonetheless.

I'm curious. What do you need to be doing to register zone 6? Is it slowly churning a big gear up a hill, where you're really pushing down on the pedals, or would you also get to a zone 6 climbing in a lower gear but at a lot higher cadence?

 

[N0bodyOfTheGoat]

That type of information is a distant dream for an old luddite such as myself, but it is very interesting nonetheless.

I'm curious. What do you need to be doing to register zone 6? Is it slowly churning a big gear up a hill, where you're really pushing down on the pedals, or would you also get to a zone 6 climbing in a lower gear but at a lot higher cadence?

If we say your FTP is the maximum power you can sustain for 40mins+ (so many ways to get ballpark FTP these days, usually with a method doing far less than 40mins of threshold+, not all translated to a value I could sustain for anything like 40mins)...

Zone 6 is approx 120-150% of your FTP.

I did a super short TT on my turbo trainer before dinner, on the app called Zwift on the ~2.5Km route called Macaron. Of the 3mins50secs taken to complete the course, https://intervals.icu/ reckons I was in z6 for ~2mins12secs using 200W as an estimated FTP.

It's really not a power output you want or are able to maintain for very long, pretty likely you will be above your Lactate Threshold Heart Rate (98% of the maximum average you can hold for 20mins)!

 

[esoxlucius]

If we say your FTP is the maximum power you can sustain for 40mins+ (so many ways to get ballpark FTP these days, usually with a method doing far less than 40mins of threshold+, not all translated to a value I could sustain for anything like 40mins)...

Zone 6 is approx 120-150% of your FTP.

I did a super short TT on my turbo trainer before dinner, on the app called Zwift on the ~2.5Km route called Macaron. Of the 3mins50secs taken to complete the course, https://intervals.icu/ reckons I was in z6 for ~2mins12secs using 200W as an estimated FTP.

It's really not a power output you want or are able to maintain for very long!

Yeah, actually hitting zone 6 is probably not that big of a deal if you're charging up hill. But sustaining zone 6 for even the shortest period of time, I expect, would be pure hell.

Like I said earlier, I don't do full gas training, not even for a few seconds here and there. I expect I very very rarely get to to zone 6 on any of my rides.

I'm sure you've seen the GCN videos where the guys try to hold the wheel of a pro or they do tests on turbo trainers at holding a given wattage output for as long as possible.

The guys on the show are decent cyclists, yet they haven't got a chance in hell of matching the pros. It makes what the pros are capable of doing all the more remarkable.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I'm curious. What do you need to be doing to register zone 6? Is it slowly churning a big gear up a hill, where you're really pushing down on the pedals, or would you also get to a zone 6 climbing in a lower gear but at a lot higher cadence?

For me, pushing a bigger gear on a hill will do it. Something like a 52 x 17 on a 5% gradient at about 75rpm will comfortably get me into Zone 6. Although, as you say, a lower gear at 90rpm+ will also do the trick.

Yeah, actually hitting zone 6 is probably not that big of a deal if you're charging up hill. But sustaining zone 6 for even the shortest period of time, I expect, would be pure hell.

If you are used to intervals it is not too bad. That 4% in zone 6 I quoted on my last ride is about 10mins total in Zone 6. Probably 90 seconds or so at a time is manageable for me.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Zone 2 comes in and out of fashion in cycles, it has been popular the last couple of years as Tadej Pogacar and his old coach talked about it a lot.

The thing is, Pog's zone 2 isn't quite the same thing as a normal person's zone 2.

I saw one video on this subject and the person seemed to be giving the impression that they needed to be riding only in zone 2. As if any forays into zones above would poison the whole thing. Sure I can understand the logic of putting in many hours of Z2 to build an endurance base, but I can't see the harm in pushing beyond briefly when conditions call for it.

 

[Pblakeney]

The thing is, Pog's zone 2 isn't quite the same thing as a normal person's zone 2.

The principle is that as you get fitter you get faster. Pog is just an extreme example.

 

[Mr.B-Campag]

Zone 2 comes in and out of fashion in cycles, it has been popular the last couple of years as Tadej Pogacar and his old coach talked about it a lot.

You'd he surprised what zones you may actually be riding in, you will probably be doing much more Zone 1 than you think as we all coast, freewheel much more than we think.

It is actually quite tricky to ride predominantly in one particular zone, you have to really monitor the effort and keep it very consistent throughout a ride.

The terrain has a big impact. Rolling terrain as the OP describes is the most difficult to stay in zone. When I was training properly - lots of Sweetspot (roughly upper zone 3 in a 5 zone model iirc) I would tend to use long hills or very flat circuits, but if I were in rolling terrain I would have to really push it downhills and drag my brakes where necessary to stay in zone. Fwiw Stephen Seiler says that intensity discipline is one of the thing that separates the professionals from most amateurs.