BB30A options?

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goody

Veteran
Location
Carshalton
Looking at buying a frameset that has a BB30A bottom bracket. I'd like to build it up with a Shimano groupset and as I'm buying a groupset would like to use it all including the chainset!
Not really keen on the 'bung' type of thing that wheels mfg make as I think the original BB30A is still used.
FSA did a press in tube with threads either end for the hollowtech bearings that worked with BB30(68mm) but BB30A is 73mm. I see FSA do one of these for 73mm BB shells but have heard that it won't work but can't see why, anyone got any ideas?
 

Milkfloat

An Peanut
Location
Midlands
I am lucky enough to have BB30a xx( I did my research beforehand and found that some people have had luck with the praxis converter and others designed for BB30, they apparently used less. I'll try to go down this route if and when required.
 

COYS

Active Member
Been looking at updating my Synapse Sora BB30A to a full Shimano 105. I'm a total novice when it comes to bikes and any maintenance, but looking around forums these seem to be the best options:

C-Bear: https://www.c-bear.com/en/products/...annondale-synapse-shimano-fsa-race-face-rotor

Wheels manuf: http://wheelsmfg.com/bottom-bracket...pters/bbright-adapter-for-shimano-cranks.html

Kogel: http://kogelbearings.mysimplestore.com/products/bb30a-24-for-shimano-cranks

bbinfinite: http://www.bbinfinite.com/products/bb3a-directfit-shimano


Can anyone help and recommend one in particular? Is there anything else we need to consider or other options? would a LBS be able to fit these or are any special tools needed?
 

davidecook

New Member
Location
Germany
Hello-
I just bought a CAAD12 frameset and I've been scouring the Internet for a bottom bracket solution for my Shimano Ultegra crankset. I found both bbinfinite and C-bear. After doing some research, bbinfinite will not work with the CAAD12 because of the internal cable routing for the front and rear mech's. After talking with the people at C-bear, I just ordered the BB30A bottom bracket solution. I don't know if my problem is unique to CAAD12 or not, but the other thing I like about C-bear is they only deal in ceramic bearings. And the complete solution I purchased was 109.00 Euro including shipping to Germany. I plan on doing a review of the product in terms of ease of installation and functionality on the road. Will keep you posted :-)
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Here's some recycled posts on bottom brackets (from March) which bear reposting.
It is a design issue, hardly at all a fitment or component (bearing) problem. The BB has a very chequered history and I'll quickly recap.
First we had cotter pin. Cotters were problematic but were eventually replaced by the square taper, which was brilliant. It allowed lightweight aluminium cranks to be securely fastened to steel crank spindles without any problems of precession and lash, both problems with the cotter. (Note that I'm referring to a British cotter, not American cotter).
Then the weight weenies came around and questioned the solid BB axle and asked for something to be make lighter. Shimano responded with the Octalink BB. It fitted into existing BSA BB shells and thus didn't require a frame redesign. However, the enlarged axle required smaller bearings so that the assembly could fit into the limited space inside the BB shell. This reduced the bearing durability. Further, the advent of MTBing meant that people now jumped their bikes whilst standing on the cranks one foot forward, one 180degrees to the back. This put huge strain on the axle and the short Octalink spines could not provide enough stiffness and the flex inside the splines caused the crank bolt to unscrew on the one crank pointing backwards. Visualise this is the bolt head moving backwards with the flexing inside the crank eye but not returning with the backlash. This caused the shallow splines to strip. In addition to that problem, the splines were blind and assembly had to be very accurate, otherwise the spindle peeled pieces of spline and ruined the spline as the bolt is tightened. Then Shimano invented Octalink II without acknowledging the mistakes of what was not suddenly Octalilnk I. Octalink II solved the lash problem but not the bearing problem. Shimano even attempted to use roller bearings in its high-end Octalink cranks but these failed prematurely as well since roller bearings don't work well in grease where the grease is pushed away from the bearing and not returned as with a ball bearing.
Then a repeat of the Betamax vs VHS story started. Shimano refused to license Octalink (or the Americans refused to buy a license) and a consortium of American companies then reverse engineered their own version of Ocatlilnk, called the ISIS spline. It had not 8 as in Shimano, but 9 splines and a different spline shape. This all to avoid patent licence fees. Octalink, Octalink I, Octalink II and ISIS is all rubbish.
Shimano then decided that it will re-invent the BB again and came up with Hollowtech. This was a two-piece crank with a 24mm spindle and an externally mounted pair of bearings. The crank press-fit into the bearings, separated by a plastic spacer between crank and bearing race. The idea was to save weight, provide a stiff spindle by going oversize and create larger bearings but place them outside of the still-standard BB shell. Unfortunately the spindle was not stiff enough and the left hand bearing now fails prematurely because the spindle flexes on the left. Remember that torque is only transmitted through the spindle from the left crank, not the right. For a long time people through their left BB cup failed because a bike is laid down on its left side and water inside the BB was damaging the left bearing. However, it was the flexing spindle that pulls the sensitive deep groove bearing to run against the sides of its grooves and bind. Also astonishingly, the bearing balls were still too small for the job. Although the bearing diameter increased, the balls stayed small and they packed more of them in rather than bulk up the assembly a bit.

A BB redesign was called for and national pride meddled with good design. Cannondale, Bullseye and some other American companies then perpetrated BB30. It had a large (30mm) spindle to prevent some of the flexing found in Hollowtech and to supposedly save the customer maintenance cost, fitted two standard industrial deep groove bearings directly into a redesigned oversized shell. This was a big mistake, especially in hindsight when frames were made from carbon. The BB shell on an aluminium bike is a fragile, highly stressed component. It is a little thin-shell transverse tube with four major welds connecting it to the top tube, seat tube and two chainstays. This welding distorts the shell. This happened with old BBs as well but now with BB30, the bearing was fitted directly into the shell by press-fit. Tolerances had to be very high if you don't want the bearing to bind because of out-of-roundness of the shell and, simultaneously you want the bearing to fit tight enough into the aluminium shell to not move and fret during hard pedaling. This is an impossible call. These bearings all move and creak. The Japanese had some wisdom in using a screw-in system and sticking with it. Further, the bearings in BB30 are not far enough outboard to prevent the aluminium crank spindle to not flex and cause lateral loading of the bearing. That's why it fails so quickly.
BB30 became an even worse idea when frames turned to carbon. Now the BB shell was too soft to accept a steel bearing directly and, cannot be machined even close enough to good enough tolerance in anyway. Out came another shell redesign and we got BB30 Presssfit. This called for the bearing to be housed in a plastic cup which is then pressed into the imperfect frame aperture. They creak like hell and wear the shell out in an oval shape. They are terrible.

And that's where we are today. Weight weenies, poor engineering and national pride gave us a system that is worse than the 50 year old (guessing here) square taper. No-one admits it, few mechanics understand it and they're all looking for solutions such as warrantee replacements bearing glue and hope.

The answer will only be found once we have a new design. Don't think BB-Right provides it either.

are you aware of an alternative, good bottom bracket that could replace a BB30 or does the shell design make it inevitable that anything that would fit would just be someone else's equally poor version of the same sort of design?
Also, my other bike is fitted with one of these - are you familiar with these and if so where would they fit among your descriptions of modern BB design - I'm wondering if this is a bit of a poor man's Hollowtech but with a threaded rather than press-fit shell?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/fsa-bb-4000-omega-drive-mega-exo-bb/rp-prod58234
I know I tried to upgrade it to a Hope BB recently but they don't manufacture anything that would fit the spindle that a FSA Mega-Exo 4000 takes.

That Mega Exo is one of the worst there is.Firstly, the spindle is 19mm. Compare that to Shimano's 24mm that's already flexing on the left. Then, it uses the problematic outboard bearing design. However, if you are prepared to sacrifice the crank, you can replace that BB with a standard square taper or even a Shimano Hollowtech (24mm).

If I were you I would cut my losses on the FSA Mega-Thing crank and go 24mm.

The best treatment you can give your BB30 is a converter that's glued inside the BB-shell. this is a sturdy aluminium sleeve that converts it from BB30 to Hollowtech (24mm). Then you can use any of the 24mm cranks such as Campagnolo or Shimano or many of the other after-market models. This conversion is easy, cheap and really effective.

Something I didn't mention in my rant above is another one of the faults of external bearing BBs such as Shimano Hollowtech, SRAM GXP or many of the other similar designs. With the bearing cups now sitting outboard instead of inside the BB shell, they don't have the support of an internal sleeve. If you look at a square taper BB you'll see that there's a spindle inside two bearings (sometimes three as with Camplagnolo) inside a steel sleeve. This sleeve adds extra strength to the assembly and any rocking of the crank now requires the entire frame to rock side-to-side. With outboard bearings the two cups rock independently of each other. Evidence of this movement is visible in the grey aluminium rouge that's evident on the thread when you remove the BB and audible through creaks and groans that quickly develop in the BB cups.

Having two individual cups press-fit into a carbon frame is possibly the worst of the worst. Someone should be sent to engineering hell.

Edit: If you want to be rally stupid you use all the poor design features in one design. Enter SRAM GXP. a 19mm spindle (perhaps 20mm?) on the left side and 24mm on the right. If anything, that should have been reversed. 300km on a GXP BB is not uncommon.

Best Square Taper is Shimano UN-54. They don't come any better than that. Square taper and outboard bearings are the exact opposite of each other. Square taper has inboard bearings, Hollowtech has outboard bearings. The latter is an OK option.

BB30 creaks are almost always attributed to the bearings moving in the frame but long experience with two bikes fitted with FSA BB30 cranksets has proved to me that the problem is the following: in order for the BB axle to pass though the two inner races it has to be a snug but not tight fit. This leaves sufficient play for the actual axle to fret under pedalling forces inside the bearing inner races, setting up a creak as friction and heat build up. In evidence of this, here's a picture of my FSA axle after only 500 miles:

20140523_195613_zps9dc25291.jpg


Notice how the band of the machined area that's within the bearing inner races has eroded and notice how much less eroded the drive side is, thanks to the stabilising effect of the chainrings. White or green grease smeared on this area quickly turns black as the metal wears and the creaking soon returns. The remedy is to smear bearing fit compound on the axle; smear it on the axle at the drive end and inside the bearing at the non-drive end so that it has the best chance of not being wiped off as you push the crankset axle through from the RH side. This cures the creaking, permanently, or at least until you next dismantle the BB.

Edit: by contrast the bearings are a tight fit inside those alloy shells and require an extractor to move them so they don't fret and move.
 

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Globalti

Legendary Member
Yes it's made by Loctite but a few brands make it. You can get it from a bearing stockist or DIY store and I think Halfrauds. It's not super glue but a softer version that doesn't set hard.
 

Svendo

Guru
Location
Walsden
It's loctite 641 for disassemblability. fwiw I've ended up using a dab on my PF30 set up (nylon cups and bb30 24mm adaptor) between the cups and adaptor (lbs bonded the cups on from the get go) and it's creak free now. There seem to be 2 pf30/bb30 issues: the bearings wearing rapidly and creaking, which often share solutions ( 2part screw together type BB and some glue)
 

jowwy

Can't spell, Can't Punctuate....Sue Me
Im going with the c-bear bb30a to gxp bottom bracket for me newly aquired cannondale hi mod disc frame.
 
I own a new CAAD12 105 disc. Has anyone of you had success installing c bear bb in this disc version. I recon the hydraulic brake cable comes in the way somehow. Any suggestions how to solve this “cable problem”?
 
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