BBC report on womens cycling & fatalities

[Cab]

Rather than preach to the converted here I've started a discussion in a less pro-cycling site elsewhere:

http://forum.downsizer.net/viewtopic.php?p=820268#820268

My own view is that while cyclists should do what they can to position themselves in a safe position on the road, we make far too little of the responsibility of others not to endanger us. It ain't us bringing the risk to others, to make the roads safer it isn't us who need the most re-educating.

 

[jonny jeez]

I came up behind a Danish lorry (on a UK road) today with a small No Entry sign on the offside rear, and a small Keep Left arrow on its near side rear.

I've often wondered how hard it would be to fit a small sponge type of sign on the rear, near side corner of a trailer (lorry trailer) that flapped out to block the inside kerb as the vehicle applies it's handbrake (if lorries have such a thing).

It wouldn't actually stop you (as its made of sponge), but would make a really visible illustration that its not safe to go there!!

Perhaps dragons den awaits!!

 

[MacB]

There needs to be more research in this area. The headline figures and recent press reports suggest an over-representation of women involved in fatal HGV collisions - however, at a national level, I'd be interested to see a detailed road traffic collision study covering the last 30 years as I doubt the difference in gender and cycling fatalites is as marked as the media portrays.

Matt, is there any source that actually gives a breakdown of accidents involving cyclists? I was thinking of full data, severity, who was involved, conditions, locations, cyclist gender/age/experience, etc, etc. I've had a look and can find surprisingly few stats.

 

[Origamist]

Matt, is there any source that actually gives a breakdown of accidents involving cyclists? I was thinking of full data, severity, who was involved, conditions, locations, cyclist gender/age/experience, etc, etc. I've had a look and can find surprisingly few stats.

This is about as detailed as I have seen (age, severity, gender, location, manoeuvre, time of year etc) but it is stil an overview:

Pedal cyclist collisions and casualties in Greater London

http://londonroadsafety.tfl.gov.uk/www/downloads/publications/PC-Cas-Factsheet-Final-1986-2007.pdf

Anything more detailed at a national level would require letters to the relevant DfT depts.

 

[Origamist]

I've often wondered how hard it would be to fit a small sponge type of sign on the rear, near side corner of a trailer (lorry trailer) that flapped out to block the inside kerb as the vehicle applies it's handbrake (if lorries have such a thing).

It wouldn't actually stop you (as its made of sponge), but would make a really visible illustration that its not safe to go there!!

Perhaps dragons den awaits!!

I'd rather see a change in the law re: HGV side guards.

 

[MacB]

This is about as detailed as I have seen (age, severity, gender, location, manoeuvre, time of year etc) but it is stil an overview:

Pedal cyclist collisions and casualties in Greater London

http://londonroadsafety.tfl.gov.uk/www/downloads/publications/PC-Cas-Factsheet-Final-1986-2007.pdf

Anything more detailed at a national level would require letters to the relevant DfT depts.

thanks Matt, interesting read, I'm surprised that an organisation like the CTC doesn't maintain a national database of this sort of detail. You'd only need one data table and that could feed all of the tables.

 

[Wheeledweenie]

The stats thing is a bit of an issue for me. I'm sure I saw somewhere that actually the numbers of men and women killed are comparable and this year seems to be a 'blip' as it were and just coincidence that so many were women.

That said, I know it may sound sexist but, in my experience, most of the timid cyclists I see are women, be them lycra-clad or posh on a Pashley. What worries me is that I've seen quite a few women feel forced to creep up the left side by impatient cyclists as well as cars, it happened to me a lot when I started out. Now I take my position and hold it but the pressure is still there.

 

[marinyork]

thanks Matt, interesting read, I'm surprised that an organisation like the CTC doesn't maintain a national database of this sort of detail. You'd only need one data table and that could feed all of the tables.

I thought the CTC had a map of all KSIs in the last 5 years nationally? I don't believe it includes the other data you want. Such a map is useful as it tells us things such as known bad roads do have a bad record or for example some areas with commuting/high cycling levels have quite a few KSIs.

Councils are clued up about where the problem spots are, they just can't do very much about it. Also like I said, note what I said about "nationally". Nationally many areas don't have the problem outlined in this story.

 

[Origamist]

The CTC have just set-up the stop SMIDSY database which might prove a useful mechanism for reporting collisions and nr misses.

http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/

 

[Origamist]

The article recommended overtaking HGVs at junctions. I'd advise people against undertaking and overtaking HGVs at junctions

BIKES V LORRIES - THE SAFE WAY

 

[joolsybools]

The article recommended overtaking HGVs at junctions. I'd advise people against undertaking and overtaking HGVs at junctions

BIKES V LORRIES - THE SAFE WAY

+1, it just isn't worth trying to overtake just to 'save' a few seconds. I'd much rather an HGV or any other huge vehicle was in front and stayed in front of me.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

The article recommended overtaking HGVs at junctions. I'd advise people against undertaking and overtaking HGVs at junctions

BIKES V LORRIES - THE SAFE WAY

I confess I only "skimmed" the BBC article; were they not talking about filtering? I'd assumed that in the illustration above they were talking about a stopped lorry.

I'd definitely not be trying to overtake even a slow moving one. And given that a stopped one might start moving at any time, I'd think twice about passing it. And then a third time. And then probably still not do it.

 

[Origamist]

I confess I only "skimmed" the BBC article; were they not talking about filtering? I'd assumed that in the illustration above they were talking about a stopped lorry.

I'd definitely not be trying to overtake even a slow moving one. And given that a stopped one might start moving at any time, I'd think twice about passing it. And then a third time. And then probably still not do it.

I assumed they were talking about filtering too. I'd advise against it even if the HGV was stopped and I knew the light phasing. It's safer to hang back where you can keep a better eye on the vehicle. If you are going to pass the HGV, better to do it on the outside and make sure you get the driver's attention when you are in front of his cab. However, we should challenge the filter-at-all-costs mentality - filtering is something that should not be "undertaken" lightly, it is a privilege.

 

[Lazy-Commuter]

I assumed they were talking about filtering. I'd advise against it even if the HGV was stopped and I knew the light phasing. It's safer to hang back where you can keep a better eye on the vehicle. If you are going to pass the vehicle better to do it on the outside and make sure you get the driver's attention when you are in front of his cab.

We should challenge the filter-at-all-costs mentality - filtering is something that should not be undertaken lightly, it is a privilege.

Agree totally. Hence my second paragraph. The filter-at-all-costs mentality is akin to the must-overtake-cyclist mentality that we all complain about.

 

[HJ]

Is it me, or shouldn't the onus of responsibility be on the driver of the TONS of metal that killed the women?

I wonder how many of the drivers were men?

I wonder how many have previous motoring convictions for speeding, careless/dangerous/drunk driving or road rage?

Research has been carried out into the causes of road traffic collision and it has been found that for collision involving cyclist and motor vehicles, in 90% of the cases the driver was the cause.