Becoming fashionable…..

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Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
There is a passing resemblance I suppose. They are round.

Those wheels look to have sturdy rims made out of girders with a high spoke count, hardly surprising given their age and intended purpose, but I doubt any modern bikes, fashionable or otherwise, have such hefty utilitarian hoops.

The reason that some of the tyres look like modern tyres is probably because that's exactly what they are. Presumably the originals have perished.
 
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BoldonLad

Not part of the Elite
Location
South Tyneside
Consumerism? Disposable products? Well that's what you get by seeking out or expecting prices to go down. The reason things aren't as repairable in our consumerist world is because to make something as cheap as they are you have to design them to be made more efficiently. To make them repairable you have to make them more dismantlable which takes more time at various stages of production. Parts need to be reinforced at different/ extra places to take those fixings. No simple clip or glue together for example.

So every time you look for bargains for something your need you're effectively aiding the consumerism even though you need it not just want it.:laugh:

An important distinction, IMHO ;)
 

Dogtrousers

Kilometre nibbler
For example ...
1668679149663.png

40 spokes and what looks like a roadster tyre. Nothing remotely like anything you might find on a gravel bike - other than that it is a spoked wheel. The tyre looks more similar to a Marathon Plus than any of the things I see branded as "gravel" which tend to be kind of mini-knobblies, with lots of little knobbles.

So the whole premise that gravel bikes have somehow reinvented paratrooper bikes is a bit flimsy.

And I bet they aren't tubeless ;):laugh: No self-respecting gravellista would use inner tubes.
 
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OP
OP
sevenfourate

sevenfourate

Devotee of OCD
For example ...
View attachment 668251
40 spokes and what looks like a roadster tyre. Nothing remotely like anything you might find on a gravel bike - other than that it is a spoked wheel. The tyre looks more similar to a Marathon Plus than any of the things I see branded as "gravel" which tend to be kind of mini-knobblies, with lots of little knobbles.

So the whole premise that gravel bikes have somehow reinvented paratrooper bikes is a bit flimsy.

And I bet they aren't tubeless ;):laugh: No self-respecting gravellista would use inner tubes.

Whoosh.

Was the sound of the humour passing right over your head…..
 

Petrichorwheels

Senior Member
Those of us of a certain age; know that fashions disappear. And then often re-appear years later in a slightly different guise. Clothing, fashion, watches, glasses frames. I’m sure it happens ‘everywhere’. And I’m guessing cycling to some degree is no different 🤷‍♂️

My Boss is a WW2 / Military collector / historian. Amongst his vast collection is a number of WW2 bikes. Inc folding Paratrooper bikes (?) :


View attachment 668166

And these:

View attachment 668167

Which if I’m not mistaken look to have the seemingly Uber fashionable ‘Gravel’ wheels / tyres on: 80 years ahead of their time:


View attachment 668168

Just saying “Fashionista’s” 😛

don't know if your boss knows, but Italian fashion house took that bike and turned it into this:
https://onlinebicyclemuseum.co.uk/1983-trussardi-folding-parabike-city-bike/

They sell for a hell of a lot.

Maybe he's planning some post-war make-overs.
 

Petrichorwheels

Senior Member
How the feck do we get from some pics of WW2 bikes to Di2, marketing, consumerism and communism.:wacko:

does every thread have to end up in the oft repeated daft argument?

It's an interesting example though.
And the point is well worth making on a cycling forum - new cyclists come along and may learn something, may learn to delight even more in the simplicity of their new-found enthusiasm (am assuming are not out to win major competitions) rather than be diverted by parties with their own interests.
Quite a few things in life are simpler than some folks would have you believe.
And are all the better for it. If you can see it.
 

Petrichorwheels

Senior Member
I'm a rather cynical person :smile:

Do you really believe that most consumers aren't as suggested, given the state of consumerism in the developed world? We have ever-more things becoming disposible / irreparable, ongoing built-in-obsolescence, diminishing quality, ever-shorter product lifespans, marketing that revolves around perceived status and other arbitrary , irrelevant constructs that have nothing to do with how well a product actually performs its function...

It keeps the economy going to the detriment of absolutely everything else. How much will we care about "growth" when eventually reduced to fighting each other for scraps of food in a desolate wasteland of our own creation; stripped of all natural resources and replaced with piles of the useless tat we've raped the planet to produce...?

somewhat strongly worded wafter but see where you are coming from.
Rather conjures visions of a madmax future world of some folks fighting to the death for some particular Di2 component they need to keep their compatibility challenged collection of tubes running.
 

Petrichorwheels

Senior Member
So what do you suggest @wafter ? Communism? That didn't work did it? You're never going to get rid of consumerism in a free world with a free market, all you can ever hope to do is curb it.

isn't that what is essentially being argued for though cyclops - curbing it, encouraging folk to see through hype, cycling* (times 2 of fashion), appreciating stuff for what it is/does rather than perceived status/latest thing? I don't think anyone is arguing for communism - a failed project as practiced which became a trough of corruption.
* on cycling of fashions in general have long thought that some folks with capital to spare are investing in cheap warehouse space for despised products that they know will command a hefty premium in 25-30 years - could be a good multi-generational family business.
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
So what do you suggest @wafter ? Communism? That didn't work did it? You're never going to get rid of consumerism in a free world with a free market, all you can ever hope to do is curb it.

Without going off on some ranty 5k word manifesto, capitalism's not working so well either, is it?

It's the same story as everything else in human history; we harness the power of our "intelligence" and opposable thumbs to exploit the natural resources around us, yet instead of using these finite assets respectfully and sparingly we mercillessly, unrelentingly rape the planet to pursue this ridiculous and clearly unsustainable model of perpetual economic growth..

Surely some model of restrained, pragmatic and sustainable consumption is the way forward..?

Consumerism? Disposable products? Well that's what you get by seeking out or expecting prices to go down. The reason things aren't as repairable in our consumerist world is because to make something as cheap as they are you have to design them to be made more efficiently. To make them repairable you have to make them more dismantlable which takes more time at various stages of production. Parts need to be reinforced at different/ extra places to take those fixings. No simple clip or glue together for example.

So every time you look for bargains for something your need you're effectively aiding the consumerism even though you need it not just want it.:laugh:

A question of mis-placed values though; surely - if there was demand for longevity and quality manufacturers would work to satisfy that. Instead there's an enormous marketing conspiracy to up-sell products on the basis of anything but these values; shortening product lifespan and driving up sales / profit.

It shouldn't be forgotten that the bicycle industry was at the root of modern mass production systems for motorised vehicles moving from the manufacture of sewing machines to bicycles then diversifying. So creating consumer demand is not something suddenly new and evil but part of a continuum that started at the end of the Victorian era. Creating and meeting demands goes back to the early days of the Industrial Revolution, and perhaps the railways can be blamed, together with the catalogue companies, if you want to blame somebody, for promoting and making easily available factory made products that were almost impossible to get a generation or so before that.
Two very different things here though, no?

Meeting demain is arguably largely legit; offering a product to fulfil an existing need. For example, Barry needs a means of getting around that's faster than walking but cheaper and more sustainable than driving. Barry buys a bike, Barry's needs are met and Barry is happy.

Conversely, we have Barry cycling round happily on his modest bike (which does absolutely everything he could ever ask of it), only to be told that it (and by extension he) is obsolete and inferior because it's made out of an outdated material / is too heavy / doesn't have the latest tech). Barry feel inferior, chucks his old faithful in the skip and buys a new shiny replacement.

So in summar, meeting demands is fine, while those attempting to falsely manufacture demand should be burned annualy in a giant wicker man on the village green :smile:


Not so much out of fashion as becoming obsolete in the face of competition from lighter materials.

Obsolete by what metrics though, and at what costs? Sure, if you're a keen racing snake and losing half a kilo of bike mass will shave 1% off your time on the local strava-wang-waving segment matters to you;"upgrading" is arguably worth the cost.

On the other if you're casual weekend cyclist / commuter, is paying a considerable sum to "upgrade" to something that will make zero perceptable difference to you journey; along with potentially being far more fragile / short-lived an astute decision?

Marketing appears all about defining irrelvant parameters and values as relevant. People naturally assume that "what's good for the TdF rider must be good for me" when really there's very little common ground between the requirements of each party and buying into the values that make a good TdF bike will probably work to the detriment of many leisure riders.. despite what the marketing says.


*EDITED* because I was unable to post the original response and had to cut-and-paste into a new one; causing all manner of carnage.. :rolleyes:
 
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wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
In other news, I'm loving the vintage olive-drab fat-cum-gravel bike to the right / front in this image:

cae1775c-1b90-465a-b5af-50a2a421b0de-jpeg.jpg


Does anyone know what it is? Absolutely do want :wub:
 

a.twiddler

Veteran
Its appearance seems to owe a lot to the way what would have been a vintage motorcycle at that time would have looked. Not surprising as early 20th century motorbikes developed from a sturdy bicycle frame with an engine attached before diversifying into a more specialised type of machine. It still looks good from a modern perspective though.

Bicycles with twin top tubes are, or were until recently, still popular in parts of the Middle East. Local preference, fashion, practicality, call it what you will but no doubt they are designed for unglamorous long term daily use on poorly surfaced roads rather than as a style icon.
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Rather conjures visions of a madmax future world of some folks fighting to the death for some particular Di2 component they need to keep their compatibility challenged collection of tubes running.

Yeah, it'll be "council Mad Max" ("Miffed Malcolm"?) where petrol's a tenner a litre, everyone's driving a Korean supermini and the only weapons available are repurposed garden tools..
 
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