Being yelled at and perceptions of cyclists....

[jimboalee]

I did notice yesterday while riding around Brum, it's not so much passing parked cars ( it seems to be understood by drivers that I am going to move across to the centre and not ride into the back of the first parked car ) but at 'constrictions' where there is a central small curbed island with a pair of bollards.

The lane reduces from 12' to 10' through these so Mr Motorist has to adjust his position on the carriageway. When Mr Motorist and I reach the bollards together ( or he is very close to me ), I can't 'take the road'.
That would be me asking to go to hospital.

The first incident ( 1995 ) I described was when I 'took the road' early to tell the Taxi driver there wasn't room for the two of us. He thought I was deliberately making it difficult for him.

I didn't do anything like this yesterday. Quite the opposite. I took a rearward glance and adjusted my position toward the yellow lines and allowed Mr Motorist through at a reduced speed.

Both Mr Motorist and I were happy.

You'll probably say "WRONG". I've been cycling round Brum for twenty five years and got the hang of riding in close proximity to motor traffic. A bicycle and a car across a 10' lane is no problem. What I'm not going to do is move to the middle and block him when there's enough lane for both of us. He will see my 'taking the road' as "a prat on a bike getting in the way" and have a shout.

There are also bollards which bring the lane down to 8'. That's a different matter. I stayed at 3' out which stopped Mr Motorist passing.

And do you think any of them thanked me?

 

[brokenbetty]

No one is disputing your description of sensible cycling - it's what all of us do. If there are cars around ride primary if the conditions dictate it, otherwise secondary.

You misunderstood some commonly used terms then criticised what you assumed, based on this misunderstanding, was a common and recommended riding style.

Now you understand you were mistaken, but instead of gracefully acknowledging your error, you are posting anecdotes in which you ride exactly as others have proposed yet posit them in opposition to some imagined recommended style.

Once again, no one rides as you are suggesting, and the only reason you thought they did was a misunderstanding. You are fighting a straw man.
__________________

 

[summerdays]

Does it really need a book to ride past a row of parked cars?

When I returned to cycling after a 20 year break (apart from leisure cycling), I had loads of problems and yes I needed a book (and some helpful people on C+) to come out of the gutter. And I got myself in the situation once where I was positioned on the left trying to go straight ahead and would have been left hooked by the car behind if I hadn't stopped meekly next to the kerb - at that point I got help.

 

[BentMikey]

The lane reduces from 12' to 10' through these so Mr Motorist has to adjust his position on the carriageway. When Mr Motorist and I reach the bollards together ( or he is very close to me ), I can't 'take the road'.
That would be me asking to go to hospital.

This reads to me like a failure of planning ahead on your part. You can see that you're approaching bollards - then negotiate out into the lane before you get there, and before the driver is close enough to prevent it. Remaining passive is a poor riding strategy.

A better approach once you've made this mistake, would be to slow a little and let the driver go through the narrowing ahead of you. Sometimes this is necessary when negotiation doesn't work and the driver doesn't let you out.

And do you think any of them thanked me?

Funnily enough doing it properly, the cyclecraft way, often gets double flash thank yous for me. I have a couple of sections of road where there are repeated constrictions, and have to take the lane through them. With good negotiation, a point at the pedestrian refuge to explain why I'm taking the lane, and an obvious return to secondary, most drivers seem grateful that I'm communicating with them, have made it obvious I've seen them, and also made it easy for them to past. I usually wave them past as well once in secondary.

I think this whole anti-cyclecraft thing is largely an ego issue with you. You don't like to admit that anyone else might know more about good riding strategies. No different to many drivers who are just as closed minded to learning new skills.

 

[jimboalee]

This reads to me like a failure of planning ahead on your part. You can see that you're approaching bollards - then negotiate out into the lane before you get there, and before the driver is close enough to prevent it. Remaining passive is a poor riding strategy.

A better approach once you've made this mistake, would be to slow a little and let the driver go through the narrowing ahead of you. Sometimes this is necessary when negotiation doesn't work and the driver doesn't let you out.



Funnily enough doing it properly, the cyclecraft way, often gets double flash thank yous for me. I have a couple of sections of road where there are repeated constrictions, and have to take the lane through them. With good negotiation, a point at the pedestrian refuge to explain why I'm taking the lane, and an obvious return to secondary, most drivers seem grateful that I'm communicating with them, have made it obvious I've seen them, and also made it easy for them to past. I usually wave them past as well once in secondary.

I think this whole anti-cyclecraft thing is largely an ego issue with you. You don't like to admit that anyone else might know more about good riding strategies. No different to many drivers who are just as closed minded to learning new skills.

Haven't you been reading anything?
The two and ONLY times I have been verbally abused by motorists is when I did what you have just said I should do.


Are you sure a Double Flash means 'Thank you'?

Motorists don't usually spend time and effort pulling their lamps stalk twice for 'a prat on a bike'.

 

[Cab]

Haven't you been reading anything?
The two and ONLY times I have been verbally abused by motorists is when I did what you have just said I should do.

And you're claiming that as statistically relevant?

 

[BentMikey]

Haven't you been reading anything?
The two and ONLY times I have been verbally abused by motorists is when I did what you have just said I should do.

Except this isn't true - you've talked about taking the lane on a regular basis in exactly the cyclecraft manner.

Why would you a) rely on just two instances which are no indication whatsoever of what most drivers think, and blame yourself for bad attitude from a minority of bad drivers?

Are you sure a Double Flash means 'Thank you'?

Motorists don't usually spend time and effort pulling their lamps stalk twice for 'a prat on a bike'.

I meant a hazard flash, by the way, not a light flash. I've only ever seen that used as a thank you here in the UK. Anyone care to disagree that this is the usual meaning?

 

[Rhythm Thief]

I meant a hazard flash, by the way, not a light flash. I've only ever seen that used as a thank you here in the UK. Anyone care to disagree that this is the usual meaning?

I think you're right. That's certainly what lorry drivers use their hazard lights for.

 

[jimboalee]

Except this isn't true - you've talked about taking the lane on a regular basis in exactly the cyclecraft manner.

Why would you a) rely on just two instances which are no indication whatsoever of what most drivers think, and blame yourself for bad attitude from a minority of bad drivers?




I meant a hazard flash, by the way, not a light flash. I've only ever seen that used as a thank you here in the UK. Anyone care to disagree that this is the usual meaning?

Another case where you haven't been reading.

Yes, I do take primary when conditions dictate, but usually not.
What you are misunderstanding is THE ONLY TWO TIMES I HAVE BEEN ABUSED is when I did.

And as for being statistically significant, when the shape of my nose is threatened by some big bloke, it is.

If the two hundredth motorist gets out and thumps you hard on the snotbox, is it 'statistically INsignificant', or would you think again about getting in the way?

 

[BentMikey]

The misunderstandings, deliberate or otherwise, are not mine on this topic. Neither is the wretchedness.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Yes, I do take primary when conditions dictate, but usually not.
What you are misunderstanding is THE ONLY TWO TIMES I HAVE BEEN ABUSED is when I did.

But this still doesn't mean that primary is wrong, or somehow responsible for some impatient twat in a car threatening to lamp you. I sometimes get abuse off car drivers for sticking to the HGV A road speed limit of 40mph, but I don't automatically think "ooh, it must be my driving that's at fault here".

 

[thomas]

I meant a hazard flash, by the way, not a light flash. I've only ever seen that used as a thank you here in the UK. Anyone care to disagree that this is the usual meaning?

Yeah, I'd generally only use it at night if someone let me in their lane or something....but a couple headlight flashes can means thanks too.

Yes, I do take primary when conditions dictate, but usually not.
What you are misunderstanding is THE ONLY TWO TIMES I HAVE BEEN ABUSED is when I did.

And as for being statistically significant, when the shape of my nose is threatened by some big bloke, it is.

If the two hundredth motorist gets out and thumps you hard on the snotbox, is it 'statistically INsignificant', or would you think again about getting in the way?

I think I'll risk one person potentially assaulting me, if it will definitely stop the majority of overtakes like this. The driver in that clip did acknowledge how they were completely in the wrong and apologised for it. However, had I been in primary position there would have been less chance for the driver to have misjudged the gap as he admitted to.

 

[jimboalee]

The misunderstandings, deliberate or otherwise, are not mine on this topic. Neither is the wretchedness.

Here's post #15.

"If you think you get shouted at a lot riding an upright, try riding a recumbent. So many toots and shouts that I'm getting really good at blanking the lot."

Here's a transcript from that book.

"Riding around with a feeling of superiority to others is also foolish. A halo offers no protection against the bad driving of others; indeed, bad driving may even be encouraged by such a 'holier-than-thou' attitude on the part of the cyclist."

 

[BentMikey]

Here's post #15.

"If you think you get shouted at a lot riding an upright, try riding a recumbent. So many toots and shouts that I'm getting really good at blanking the lot."

Here's a transcript from that book.

"Riding around with a feeling of superiority to others is also foolish. A halo offers no protection against the bad driving of others; indeed, bad driving may even be encouraged by such a 'holier-than-thou' attitude on the part of the cyclist."

How does that show anything other than lots of people toot or shout at recumbent riders?

There's no sense of superiority on my part. I'm always ready to learn more about good riding and I actively try to improve my skills. I'm also far more aware of my own mistakes than I have been in the past thanks to this.

How about you?

 

[jimboalee]

How does that show anything other than lots of people toot or shout at recumbent riders?

There's no sense of superiority on my part. I'm always ready to learn more about good riding and I actively try to improve my skills. I'm also far more aware of my own mistakes than I have been in the past thanks to this.

How about you?

I don't get tooted or shouted at.

I see this as the result of me NOT 'taking the road' unless it is absolutely necessary. I don't go across into the middle of the carriageway just because some book says I should.
I assess each situation as it aproaches. If I think there is enough room for a car and my bike, I won't go blocking the lane at 15 mph when the traffic flow is 20 or even 25 mph.

You would, 'cus you follow Cyclecraft, and you think it's the recumbent they toot at?