froze
Über Member
- Location
- Fort Wayne, Indiana
Supposedly a couple of frame builders/riders test rode two bikes built by another steel frame builder to be exactly identical in appearance, components, paint, wheels, tires, both were butted the same, both had the same geometry, in other words identical twin bikes the only thing missing, was the tubing stickers, but one was made of high end Columbus and the other with the equivalent Reynolds. They rode these bikes for several days trading off with each other, neither knew which tubeset they were riding, in the end neither could tell the difference.
All I can say is that I've had lots of steel bikes and I could tell the difference between them all...BUT they weren't all created equal either. The list of frame types I had or have was: Trek Reynolds 531cs double butted, Trek Columbus sp/sl, Miyata spiral triple butted, Ishiwata 022 double butted, Fuji VaLite quad butted, Schwinn Tenax (Columbus) double butted, Schwinn Champion double butted, Reynolds 531st (this one I haven't built up to ride yet). All of these are different, the Tenax and the Champion (and the 531st but I haven't rode this) are both touring frames and both ride really nice when loaded, sort of like riding in a Cadillac if a comparison could be made, but when unloaded they ride like trucks! The lightest and most responsive frame I have which also is the stiffest is the Fuji VaLite followed by the Miyata tubsets. The flexist bike I had was he Columbus sp/sl, but that one was built in 1976 and I don't think the metallurgy was as good as they got it in the 80's. I had rode worse bikes than the Columbus sp/sl, in particular the Peugeot PX10 that I think used Vitus steel tubing but don't recall much more than that, I test rode over the years back in the late 70's and into the 80's three of those top of line Px10 series and my god the amount of flex was insane which is why I never bought one, but those Nervex lugs were just the coolest. The Reynolds 531cs is the bike I raced on, I test rode a Trek that had the 531c and it was too flexy for my taste, not as bad as the Columbus sp/sl but it didn't float my boat either plus it had a rider weight limit which got me worried about long term survival, but the 531cs was both comfortable and stiff enough. But again keep in mind that all those bikes had different geometries, different wheels, different tires, etc, etc, so to make blanket statement that one tubeset was the best of all would be dependent upon all those factors. Some of those bikes I bought used after my racing days were over, if I had all those bikes back when I raced the Fuji would have been my go to bike instead of the Trek. Touring wise I can't really tell the difference between the Tenax and the Champion, I'm sure there's something but it's so minute I can't determine what that might be; the Champion is about a pound lighter but I don't notice that weight when loaded. The Miyata (which I owned 3 of them but now only have 1) those frames were very responsive due to the spiral but they were also the heaviest of the racing bikes (not as heavy as the two touring bikes), I had one of them (which I sold last spring) while I was racing as a backup bike that I rarely rode because I got use to the way the Trek rode and handled so I just never bothered to train or race with with the Miyata.
Kind of a lot a blah blah blah, but those are my takes on those frames. But my most comfortable frame (non touring) isn't steel at all, it's my titanium Lynskey.
All I can say is that I've had lots of steel bikes and I could tell the difference between them all...BUT they weren't all created equal either. The list of frame types I had or have was: Trek Reynolds 531cs double butted, Trek Columbus sp/sl, Miyata spiral triple butted, Ishiwata 022 double butted, Fuji VaLite quad butted, Schwinn Tenax (Columbus) double butted, Schwinn Champion double butted, Reynolds 531st (this one I haven't built up to ride yet). All of these are different, the Tenax and the Champion (and the 531st but I haven't rode this) are both touring frames and both ride really nice when loaded, sort of like riding in a Cadillac if a comparison could be made, but when unloaded they ride like trucks! The lightest and most responsive frame I have which also is the stiffest is the Fuji VaLite followed by the Miyata tubsets. The flexist bike I had was he Columbus sp/sl, but that one was built in 1976 and I don't think the metallurgy was as good as they got it in the 80's. I had rode worse bikes than the Columbus sp/sl, in particular the Peugeot PX10 that I think used Vitus steel tubing but don't recall much more than that, I test rode over the years back in the late 70's and into the 80's three of those top of line Px10 series and my god the amount of flex was insane which is why I never bought one, but those Nervex lugs were just the coolest. The Reynolds 531cs is the bike I raced on, I test rode a Trek that had the 531c and it was too flexy for my taste, not as bad as the Columbus sp/sl but it didn't float my boat either plus it had a rider weight limit which got me worried about long term survival, but the 531cs was both comfortable and stiff enough. But again keep in mind that all those bikes had different geometries, different wheels, different tires, etc, etc, so to make blanket statement that one tubeset was the best of all would be dependent upon all those factors. Some of those bikes I bought used after my racing days were over, if I had all those bikes back when I raced the Fuji would have been my go to bike instead of the Trek. Touring wise I can't really tell the difference between the Tenax and the Champion, I'm sure there's something but it's so minute I can't determine what that might be; the Champion is about a pound lighter but I don't notice that weight when loaded. The Miyata (which I owned 3 of them but now only have 1) those frames were very responsive due to the spiral but they were also the heaviest of the racing bikes (not as heavy as the two touring bikes), I had one of them (which I sold last spring) while I was racing as a backup bike that I rarely rode because I got use to the way the Trek rode and handled so I just never bothered to train or race with with the Miyata.
Kind of a lot a blah blah blah, but those are my takes on those frames. But my most comfortable frame (non touring) isn't steel at all, it's my titanium Lynskey.